Need help dealing with extremely difficult colleague

[Bekindtoyourknees]

AIBU to ask you how you would describe my colleague?

We've been working together for 5 years and during that time he has picked fights/started arguments with the majority of the people at work. I am on the receiving end of most of his outbursts

Examples include shouting in our faces, threatening to 'take it outside', swearing etc. Standing in my office, yelling 'you're pathetic, you're pathetic'.

Last outburst was a couple of weeks ago - telling me I'm rude (I think because I said I was busy) and that his wife is rude to him too?

I've complained verbally and in writing but boss won't challenge him (small family firm, only 20 employees, no HR). I actually think the boss is scared of him too - boss ordered himself a swanky new office chair and colleague took it for himself! Boss let him have it and still has his manky old 1970's chair.

Colleague doesn't understand non-verbal signals or body language - he will talk non-stop at meetings and can't see that we've lost interest. If anyone suggests a different way of doing things he says that we're doing it his way unless we convince him otherwise. But he doesn't actually have any authority to implement new systems or procedures.

Colleague's son is also an employee. The son has SN (statemented thoughout his schooling) is high-functioning but not able to do his job without his father's help. Colleague spends approx 70% of his working day doing his son's job, while son plays computer games. Boss is aware of this, but ignores it. Also, his son's incompetence reflects badly on me, as customers blame me for not getting results.

I don't want to have to deal with this any more - angry customers and being shouted at by this colleague. I have learnt not cry, but his outbursts still make me feel sick. I don't have issues or arguments with anyone else at work and neither do my other colleagues, apart from with him.

The worst bit is that he has told me he keeps a list of people who he is going to kill/main and how, because of their past offences. Apparently it dates back to when he was 6 years old. I have no doubt I'm on this list, as is a previous female colleague.

Who said 'have' to report to the police? I suggested she might, seeing as he is committing at least one criminal offence, maybe more.

Perhaps 101 could advise the OP.

And there's the reason I don't tell people I have BPD

How do any of the points in the OP's post fit in with BPD?

Seriously Candy? Can you really not see beyond your own outrage and see the OP asking for help in a tricky situation?

If you seriously object to the language used why not start your own thread about disabilist language rather than hijacking an advice thread? Pointing that out doesn't mean I am 'the thread police', it just means the OP is a person looking for advice, not a kicking.

I have a high functioning Autistic son. To outsiders he can appear to be rude, he doesn't pick up on body language/ facial expression / intonation in speech, he can appear to pick arguments but actually its that he's very rigid in his thought process and phenomenally pedantic.

His psychiatrists have been a great help to me in understanding his Autism but the little mantra I have learned is 'behaviour is behaviour'. The Autism doesn't excuse it, it helps explain it, but isn't a reason to allow it to happen (not that life is that simple and i'm far from mastering this). A label won't change his behaviour.

If you think about the arguments caused by this man is it due to pedantic ness and rigidity in the way he works?

I'm not web diagnosing Autism or even implying it, but some of the skills in working with rather than up against Autistic people can be effectively used with people who struggle with change as possibly I'm reading this man does?

A personality disorder is a complex psychiatric condition that can only be diagnosed by a suitably qualified MH professional after an extensive assessment over a period of time.

There's far too much unqualified talk on this site about personality disorders.

Being selfish, abusive, negative, self absorbed or just downright unpleasant are not behaviours in of themselves that are indicative of MH disorders.

Even if someone DOES has a diagnosed MH disorder it does not mean they cannot sometimes just act in a horrible way that is unrelated to their diagnosis. .

Most of us ARE just horrible at times, some more frequently and more often than others.

There are far too many 'amateur psychologist/psychiatrists'. Particularly when it comes to the latest 'in vogue'disorder which on this site seems to be NPD.

And I am a MH professional.

So no one should be able to talk about mental health unless they are "qualified"?

Actually neverthebride as a lawyer we cone across undiagnosed sociopaths on a regular basis, and I am sure that you are aware that knowledge of DSM V and its predecessor is not restricted to mental health professionals, as it is not purely a diagnostic tool.

I think awareness of pyschiatric conditions is a good thing, particularly amongst victims of it helps them to come to a resolution. I am sure that you are aware that it is unrealistic for everyone with a MH condition to receive a diagnosis, and neither is it always desirable.

Such disorders are thought to affect around 1 in 20 people; it is a human trait and to seek to ban people from discussing it when it may affect them is utterly ridiculous.

Why does the title specify BPD when none of the things in the OP are traits of BPD? Do people understand that there are other forms of Personality Disorder?

Interesting thread OP. I have been in your situation a few times and often wondered if my colleague(s) had mental health issues or were just plain nasty people. I also had to close my jaw with my hand many times when bosses did not deal with abusive colleagues even when handed a huge complaint signed by staff about one person's behaviour.

One particular boss only had eight staff and he lost six of us within six weeks but kept this particular woman on. She sounds exactly like your colleague

I think it can be quite offensive to say bad behaviour must = SN too. I don't think it is disablist to ask if it is possible SN could have caused his bad behaviour, or, in this case- whether a mental illness may have caused this. Because having a PD doesn't mean you can't be plain fucking rude, being plain fucking rude isn't a definitive sign PD, it can be a symptom, but it means nothing on its own, other behaviours mentioned in the OP suggests something is definitely not right (whether due to MH or not). For my own safety and my own concerns, if I was the OP I would definitely try and be as assertive as possible about work dealing with this. If they don't or this escalates, in the case of the last point, then yes, I'd consider informing the police.

I think asking it more generally might be better purely because these behaviours on their own arent actually a sign of a specific mental illness. It COULD show mental instability or be a symptom of a range of mental illnesses. Mentioning specific ones brings the problem to a diagnosis iyswim. What he has or hasn't got is not the issue- if he is ill and this illness is in part or fully causing certain behaviour, that's the problem, it could be because of hundreds of disorders, illnesses and conditions. Or being rude of course, with no actual MH illness/being NT.

I also don't like the 'OR'. I have a PD. I am usually lovely. I can be rude (I'm not....usually....) if I want to, and that is totally separate to my PD. Sometimes what looks like rudeness can be caused by an MH issue or disability. Sometimes it is as well as.

Although to be fair, I have looked up DSM-V criteria for BPD. It includes things like impairments in empathy, frequent mood changes and emotions that are easily aroused, disinhibition (impulsivity and risk taking), and finally hostility- persistent or frequent angry feelings, irritability in response to minor slights and insults.

CrohnicallySick you have just described my colleague perfectly

I'm not seeking to ban anyone from talking about anything, just saying that suspecting someone has a mental disorder doesn't make it so.

And using the terms without MH experience is unhelpful and suggests that MH is a field which requires no knowledge or expertise. If anyone can diagnose a MH problem then why bother with Psychiatrists or Psychologists?.

And if we can make psychiatric diagnoses with no qualifications or real knowledge of the disorders (as seems to be suggested) then perhaps it should be done with sensitivity. Hopefully no-one would dream of saying 'tell me about the appalling things your schizophrenic/autistic/cancer-suffering family member has done' which are the jist of a lot of the threads I've seen on this site.

There is a school of thinking that I think is now being taught in some MBA programmes that those presenting on the sociopathic range of behaviour are not infrequently to be found in positions of authority in business. And that they are additionally often categorised by a lack of success. Recent examples have been in the news, particularly in the banking industry, and obviously there are figures in history.

It isn't really relevant whether he has a personality disorder or not. His behaviour isn't tolerable and may be criminal and I don't know you deal best with it op. The union suggestion sounds a good one or asking the police for advice or even seeing an employment solicitor to try to get your boss to do his job and protect his employees from these kind of threats.

However, with regard to the other issue, it doesn't sound like either of the 2 specific personality disorders you mention and obviously you can't diagnose from an internet post. However I can see why it might occur to the op even if she doesn't know much about the specifics. It's not the same as cancer or MS. It's a fairly fundamental part of the diagnosis of personality disorder that it does affect the way a person interacts with others though usually it's the subjective distress that is by far the more major issue.

have you posted about this before?

I am sure you are able to distinguish between someone making a diagnosis, and someone raising the possibility, Neverthebride

LessMissAbs 19/12/13/21.37

Good post and may I quote:

"There is a school of thinking that I think is now being taught in some MBA programmes that those presenting on the sociopathic range of behaviour are not infrequently to be found in positions of authority in business. And that they are additionally often categorised by a lack of success. Recent examples have been in the news, particularly in the banking industry, and obviously there are figures in history."

I find this thread very interesting. I worked in a very prestigious University (in a lowly role) met and worked alongside future CEOs of company's who did an MBA in management and they were like an identikit of a lot of power but little talent. 99% were "My way or the highway - you're fired" which I translated as "You are cleverer than me so get lost".

They just talked a lot of technospeak and shouted a lot or smarmed a lot with the chairman.

I KNOW I have gone off thread here. Sorry OP and everyone else.

Of course Lesmiss but I still think suggesting MH diagnoses in a negative way is damaging. Both to MH as a clinical profession and to people that have a diagnosis of a PD.

I'm not wanting to annoy anyone at all but a lot of threads, including this one are suggesting that deeply unpleasant people/behaviour is associated with a MH problem and I do feel that is deeply stigmatising.

Just catching up on all your comments - I don't know if he has MH issues or is just deeply unpleasant.

I do know that I am sick of being sworn/shouted at and the onus should not be on me to find another job

However not wishing to give the impression that I am 'getting at you' neverthebride, you are referring to and concerned With your clients, whereas others of us see the victims. I dont find it credible that the the latter should be subjugated for fear of giving an impression of offence.

Can I also point out that I'm not referring necessarily to criminal-sociopaths? I've done work in the past relating to restraining orders over ex husbands and partners. Its relatively little publicised but relatively frequent, and since socialisation is thought to play a significant role in how an individual with sociopathic traits, I dont necessarily agree that creating a wall of protective silence around such traits is beneficial.

How on earth is sugges ting that someone has tendencies that may fall within a recognised range of sociopathic behaviours disablist?

Borderlines are not sociopathic. HTH.

Inflicting or threatening violence towards other people is also not a borderline trait. Generally speaking, the only person a borderline will physically hurt (or threaten to) is themselves.