To think the appalling nature of Ian Watkins' crimes and the involvement of the mothers isnt as uncommon as you might think?

[JonSnowKnowsNothing]

Sorry for a thread about a horrible topic, but it's been playing on my mind.
I met up with some friends after work recently and we were discussing the Watkins case for a while. We all work in similar fields (education, social work, etc) and all four of us have had previous experience of mothers willingly offering their children up for abuse.

As you can imagine, it was a pretty sombre discussion, but having thought about it for a while, that seems quite shocking that 4 people all have experience of this. I honestly wonder whether things like this happen a LOT more frequently than we realise.

Yes, I think it's pretty common.

My Mother is one of those people, I got away pretty much unharmed (well, can't remember anything of it anyway), Brother not so lucky though.

I don't think it takes away from the abuser, I think she was worse because of who she was and I'll always think that.

There are really sick people out there but I think it takes someone on a whole other level of disturbed and vile to do anything or watch/allow anything done to their children.

it's heartbreaking to think of but sadly what we hear is only the tip of the iceberg, of that I am sure.

An ex of mine works in prisoner rehabilitation, he told me that many violent young men were sexually abused by their mothers, I was shocked when I heard that, it sounds unbelievable that women can be sex abusers, I suppose because we often only hear of male offenders.

I think you're right, unfortunately. There are always women desperate enough for a man to turn a blind eye or hand over their children to abuse, just as there are women who abuse. They don't care about their kids, only their own perverted desires.

There are many evil people in this world, male and female.

I also agree with WannaBe, No excuse for abuse.

Yes some women are vulnerable, yes it puts them in terrible situations, and no, it just never ever excuses the horrific abuse of your own children. Having had an awful past yourself is not a get out of jail free card. There is never a reason in the world to do this to a child.

It may well be a contributing factor that we should be addressing on a societal level, but are these women not adults? Not humans? Then why do we belittle them by saying oh it's ok they couldn't help it.

Agree with everyone on this thread who has said lets stop assuming women are victims, or mad, and men are bad. Equal crimes, equal responsibility... Abuse is abuse and should be punished as such.

Berry how do you think you would or wouldn't know if it was going on in your village? People would hardly advertise the fact.

I too wish I hadn't read that court summing up on here last night.

When I was 9 I was at school with some children who we later found out were being abused. It was a huge case, I think 3 generations of family members and their partners. Theres been books written about it.

at 18 we lived across the road from someone whos dc were taken away because their father was abusing them and the mother refused to give him up, as it happens someone I went to school with had a child with him years later and new nothing about it until just before the baby was born and ss turned up on her doorstep

I also know someone who was abused by her uncle, so was her cousin and sister. Her mum knew and did nothing.

And I had a partner who was abused by his mum.

I don't think its uncommon at all, and that's not even going into situations ive seen at work which obviously I cant go into

I think in most cases of sexual abuse within the family, the mother is complicit- how could you fail to notice the change in behaviour of a child that is being abused? Some mothers will be protecting their sons, others their partners.

There is the horrific recent french case, where the mother took her 4yo son to prison to visit her partner (son's step dad) and then held her son in the visitors room whilst the animal raped him. There is no punishment that could be meted out that would atone for that.

I'm very shocked by the prevalence indicated on this thread.

Is it better or worse in other countries/cultures ?

In my previous job I have known cases of mothers handing their kids over to sex offenders in exchange for drugs or booze.

I have known women use their children to transport weapons or booze.

I have also known cases where mothers have been suspected of sexually abusing their own children.

I don't think that it is uncommon at all.

someone close to me (female) was sexually abused by an older female. As to mothers offering up their kids.... there's a couple of Torey Hayden's books detailing this, even implying some only had children for this purpose

I also know someone who was 'given' to a paedophile ring by her parents

Oh my goodness. I honestly thought I was reasonably 'worldly' and saw a good cross section of society throughy job but I have never come across anything like this.

It makes me feel utterly sick that the scenario is being repeated across the country.

I think not only does it happen but I think that when some teenagers become pregnant it is as a result of a paedophile wanting a younger child.

Is it common for a woman to sexually abuse a child on their own or is there usually a man involved?

Would you even think to ask that question about a man? Not only do women abuse but they can get away with much more / for longer because people don't want to believe this of women in general and mothers in particular.

A cousin of mine is a priest in a rural diocese in Ireland and through his parish work became aware of many cases where children were used as collateral for juice loans with the knowledge of both parents and sometimes grandparents too.

I'm an ex-secondary teacher (now work in adult ed with young mums).

I had an 11 year old boy cry at the end of class last period of the day (others left, he just sat with his head down, I remember seeing the tears pooling on his glasses). Turned out that he was going back "home" that day after several weeks in foster care, as "friends" of his parents had abused him but been arrested.

The next week he was back with his foster parents as his mother had sold him for drugs.

I'll never forget his face. He held on to my hand - I was in school with him until 7pm while the guidance teacher and ss decided what to do.

It was my second job as a teacher. He'd be 30 now. I often wonder what happened to him.

I think I have lived a very sheltered life, because I have never met anyone who has been abused as a child and I have probably been naive in thinking that these cases happen in a small pocket of society that is soulless and cannot discern right from wrong.
Now that I have two boys, every time I read the news I feel more and more desperate for their futures. How to protect them from all this? I will do my darn best to protect them whilst they are little, but what about later on?

I think that the minds of these abusers, in many occasions have been polluted by what they have watched on the net, by getting along with the wrong crowd (drug use, etc). I am so scared for my boys.

sashh Of course I wouldn't ask that question about a man because there are so many well known cases of men acting on their own.

This has been a strange eye opener for me. I never told anyone because mothers just don't do that surly. Sometimes even I doubted myself, but my graphic, consistent nightmares ensure I know it did.

Time , you said because I have never met anyone who has been abused as a child what you mean is not that you KNOW of. Much of this is still hidden. You would not know, not everyone tells all their casual acquaintances!

Weegie - I often wonder about kids I taught too. There was ones whose mums fella killed the puppy in front of the DC because they were annoying him. Another whose father used to shut his mums head in the door. another where christmas regularly resulted in massive rows and police at the door. all very sad, as is the fact that some of those kids will be repeating the cycle.

There are cases in the news all the time of men abusing on their own, but what you are saying in response to my question is that there are as many womem abusing sexually on their own as men, we just don't hear about them. Is that correct?

I've had to stop reading this thread as too many of the stories are fucking disgusting and triggering, especially as I have two young children.

It makes me so angry and desperately sad for these children.

Each and every one of us should be asking how the hell does this happen, what can we do to stop and and what can the authorities do?

Because whatever is being done is not good enough. Not good enough.

Timetoask, I feel like you. Also have never met anyone who has been abused that I know of.

Did know a couple of families with alcoholic parents and very neglected children, one of whom also became an alcoholic and died as a young adult.

They were definitely of the run-down estate culture that others have mentioned. I was with a boyfriend who was on the other side of the tracks so to speak and so had an eye opening couple of years looking at how other people lived. That was 30 years ago and it still haunts me as to how neglected the children were - no idea if they were being abused but have to say it would hardly have been surprising if they were.

sashh Of course I wouldn't ask that question about a man because there are so many well known cases of men acting on their own.

Really? How many were truly 'acting alone', the operation Yewtree is revealing a lot of men who at first glance acted alone but actually many people had an idea that something was happening.

I agree that it's more common than many of us realise.

In a previous job I was aware of a mother pimping out her 11/12 year old daughter on a very regular basis. No idea how long it had been going on for. In another case a teenage brother beat his younger sister badly because she'd had sex with someone other than him. This in the family home, and with the parents there. They clearly knew what was going on.

Those of you saying 'not in my village/that's not happened to any of my friends' etc are being naive.

Wasn't Tracey Connoley complicit in the abuse of her daughter?
I'd be very surprised if out of a population of over 60 million if these were the only ones.