Buggies must be folded by law, if a wheelchair user wishes to board

[BerniceBroadside]

I know this can be a hot topic so thought I'd share that stagecoach have new signs on their buses stating that buggies must be folded by law if a wheelchair user wishes to board. Let's hope it's actually enforced.

Well quite but you get those regardless of whether they're attached to a buggy

Sometimes they are even the driver!! -/arse holes who don't want to get off and put the buggies in the luggage space when parents have already collapsed and got toddlers out ready to NOT potentially take up the wheelchair space--

fail

OhNoGeorge The problem is not actually the size of the buggy, but the attitude behind the person with the buggy. Honestly, I don't care what type of buggy they have, but unless it's a Mac Major or other SNs buggy, I'd prefer they move it so I can put my 7yo and his wheelchair in the wheelchair space. Having to wait for a number of buses simply because every bus has between 2-4 people crammed in with buggies who refuse to move for those with a wheelchair is ridiculous and simply not right, and drivers should be enforcing that the place is specifically for WC users and making the buggies either get folded or moved.

I'm quite grateful that I have a car and rarely need to use the bus at the moment, because to be honest it makes an already stressful outing even more stressful - both for myself and for DS1 (and DS2 if he is with us).

What happens to your ticket if you get kicked off due to no space and a wheelchair user wanting to get on - does your ticket work on the next bus to come along? I'd be mad as hell if I was kicked off and had to buy a new ticket - there isn't enough storage space or safe ways to store multiple buggies on most busses so I imagine a few will just get told to wait for the next bus... not an issue if the tickets are valid for the next bus too.

Fluffy in I haven't forgotten what it's like - granted not twins but a 14 month old that didn't walk and newborn.

At the time I dealt with it by thinking "this too will pass".

It didn't. I now have two children who have to use wheelchairs outside so I can't go out with my kids without another adult present unless I use the motability car I now have due to the degree of disability I have.

But I have had a couple of times having to use buses in London recently for hospital appointments, with a wheelchair and SN buggy. Not enhanced by the mummy mafia who believed we were entitled to use a space specifically designed for the kids' needs.

Oh by the way the 'go fuck yourself' 'pweshus mummies' and 'mummy mafia' comments I've made are for the asshats on this thread and elsewhere who believe the fact they've reproduced trumps the hard fought for rights of disabled people. It doesn't.

Sorry degree of disability THEY have.

I have never seen why this even becomes an issue, it wouldn't be if people weren't so self centered.

No reason someone who uses a wheelchair, or special needs buggy, should be unable to access the space designated for them unless it is already in use by someone else with a wheelchair/SN buggy.

If you have a pram and the space is free fantastic, but when someone else wants to use the space then you move and allow them to do so.

ummm ... coming at this from a different angle, why not put the onus on the public transport companies to provide adequate services, facilities and infrastructure to meet the needs of all their users, wheelchair users and buggies alike? seems to me everyone fighting over a scarce resource. so why not remove the competition and require transport companies to take something other than profits into account.

I don't live in the UK now, but the European city where I do live is about the same size as Edinburgh. both the trams and metro are fully wheel chair accessible, and even the buses are big enough and designed to accommodate a wheelchair plus up to two non-folded buggies. it can be done.

on a recent trip to the UK my family and I got on a bus in our home town with Ds1 asleep in a buggy. about half way home another woman with a buggy, plus toddler, shopping and a new baby got on. the driver told her she'd have to fold the buggy and somehow hold the shopping, baby and toddler because only one unfolded buggy was allowed on. the bus was quiet and there were no wheelchairs on. he refused to move until she did so. so DH got off with our sleeping boy and walked several stops home rather than hang around for another bus that there was no guarantee of getting in and for which he'd have to pay again. the UK has a long long way to go in terms of providing decent public transport that is accessible to all users.

All those of you flapping your gums about breeding entitlement and not wishing yo be treated differently - get fucked.

^This.

Wheelchair users do not have greater needs with regards to travelling to their destination in priority of any other people

I cannot beieve I am reading this, and from a poster who talks of her own disability!

Do you not get the contradiction NurseRoscoe? Unbelievable!

Don't people understand? Wheelchair users have no choice and it's for life. Using a pushchair/pram/stroller is a choice: there are so many models to choose from. And babies grow into walking people, if you're lucky. Try being in a wheelchair every day of your life.

Just think about it, FFS.

Well, justwondering, fine, put the onus on the transport companies to make the buses accessible to everyone. They're not very accessible to me as a blind person, actually, for quite different reasons. How are you suggesting we do that? Are you starting the campaign?

BUT UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, WHEELCHAIR USERS GET PRIORITY ON THE WHEELCHAIR SPACES

I'm not a wheelchair user and don't even know any, but it is just obvious - can't understand how anyone is arguing otherwise.

And I've told this story before, but I have been on a crowded bus when the parents using the WHEELCHAIR SPACE flatly refused to get off or fold up for a wheelchair user. They laughed at him, and laughed at the bus driver.

He was left sitting at the bus stop, uncovered, in the pouring rain.

Despicable.

Wheelchair users do not have greater needs with regards to travelling to their destination in priority of any other people.

So you'd be quite happy for my daughter to sit in her own piss in snow and end up in hospital?

Of course she has greater need than others travelling, as do many people with disabilities. Unfortunately, she has fewer chances to excersize her greater need and right to travel because there is only one, or if she is lucky two spaces on a bus. TWO FUCKING SPACES, have you got that. Millions of people travelling every day, with numerous options whilst some people have twats quibbling over the only two fucking spaces that are available to them.
I'm one of the people that spent half the seventies and a fair bit of the eighties fighting for those spaces, that was before I had my dd and still I fought for the right (yes, the right) for disabled people to be able to travel in the same fashion that others do. I didn't actually consider the rights of mothers whose children would grow up without diffficulties because they were in fact being met.

When DS was a baby I got about by bus, no spaces, no flat floors. I was never offered any help or asked for any.

I put the baby on one shoulder (or under an arm once he got bigger), folded and picked up the buggy, with the changing bag and shopping hooked on the same wrist, so I had an arm free to pay and take my ticket. After reading this thread I feel like Superwoman!

exercise damnit janet!

I've been made to get off a bus before because I refused to fold my buggy down for a wheelchair user. The problem was though, that my buggy was in fact a Mac Major for my child with SN, he was only three at the time. Mother with twins who got on before me refused to fold, fair enough, but I couldn't fold as the buggy has a huge footplate, my child would have had a massive melt down if removed from said buggy and I was 8 months pregnant.

I sent a rather harsh worded email to the bus company (Stagecoach) and was issued an apology and a letter to hand to any driver who disputed the fact the mac major wasnt a wheelchair. They also gave some training for everyone wrt children in wheelchairs /SN buggies.

I was also one of those parents who had a pram with carrycot that didn't fold well and who got the bus. I got off when needed though and usually walked the rest of the way if I had to get off.

It isn't even about saying disabled people have greater need/right to access the bus. Its simply about giving them something making their chances of getting on the bus more equal.

I am able bodied, even when I am with a child in a buggy I am still able bodied and therefore with a bit of juggling can access the bus and pick from a selection of seats. Wheelchair users don't have that luxury they have to hope that one of the few areas on the bus which they can access is actually accessible to them.

Apologies if this has been said but I haven't read the whole thread.

I have a colleague who just about manages not to use a wheelchair but suffers with severe arthritis. She was scared to use the bus on her own when DC was in buggy as she could not fold it and waiting in cold, damp conditions for next bus could have crippled her. If the likes of her are to be expected to fold then some adjustment must be in place e.g. guarantee of help with folding and unfolding.

My buggy doesn't actually fold when the carrycot is attached. A silly design, but there you go. I chose the buggy on the basis that I rarely use public transport. If I do it's a train. And I'd probably put DD in the car seat with the buggy wheels attached if we were getting the train.

Here bus fares are insane. So you'd probably be looking at £4 at least if you had to switch buses and the driver refused to give you some kind of ticket.

Tiggytape ALL disabled people are protected by law not just the 5% who use a wheelchair.

My colleague's journey us just as important as a wheelchair user's no matter how many notices the bus company puts up. And she is well aware of the daily challenges facing disabled people due to being one herself.

Standing around in cold, wet conditions waiting fir next bus could be very debilitating and she has as much right as an able bodied parent to complete her journey.

No doubt all you MNERS will say that you would assist her to fold if a wheelchair needed the space but what if you are getting off before her and there is nobody to help unfold at her destination? Do you know whether the driver would do it or would regulations stop him?

IME mums with buggies are treated like the scum of the earth on buses.

When DS was a week old I had to get a bus to a hospital appointment. On the bus there was a buggy space and a wheelchair space, the former was being taken up by a woman with a shopping cart so I parked in the wheelchair space. At a later stop a wheelchair user needed to get on and before I could attempt to move the bus driver shouted at me to move my pram, the woman with the shopping cart refused to move her cart over for me, luckily the wheelchair user was lovely and managed to get his chair next to shopping cart lady (who moved her cart over for him). On the way back a bus drove straight past another woman with a buggy who was signalling for it to stop, the bus was nearly empty. It was my first trip out with DS, I was so nervous and still feeling the after effects of the c section, so I could have done with some help folding rather then being shouted at. It has really put me off travelling by bus, which I would need to do if I go out anywhere as I live out in the sticks and don't drive. So now I only go out with DS when DP gets home and can drive me or out at the weekend, I would love to take him out during the day more and feel like I spend an unhealthy amount of time in the house so we are saving for a second car.

Of course wheelchair users should have priority, but I think bus drivers and other passengers should be a bit kinder to mums.