Buggies must be folded by law, if a wheelchair user wishes to board

[BerniceBroadside]

I know this can be a hot topic so thought I'd share that stagecoach have new signs on their buses stating that buggies must be folded by law if a wheelchair user wishes to board. Let's hope it's actually enforced.

I rarely used the bus because it was a bloody nightmare as it was,as a consequence I often felt quite isolated.Many mums of multiples do.I'd hate for this to get worse and multiple mums put off completely from using public transport.

This is equally true for wheelchair users. Except for their entire fucking lives, not just for a short period.

You obviously don't know what 'troll hunting' means.

I don't think anyone thinks you are a troll, just a person who refuses to see the possibility that they might be wrong

You might do well to examine your own posts too, they don't exactly exude the warmth of human kindness either.

Must remember I'm being gleeful next time one if my kids ends up being humiliated due to someone misusing provision fir disability.

Gleeful, remember. Not exasperated, not upset, stressed out and heartbroken at their distress. Gleeful.

Retro, I get that.

As I said, I live in a rural area, I don't drive, I have 3 dcs (7,6 and 3.6) honestly getting about with them when younger was a bloody struggle, especially as ds is disabled. He has low muscle tone meaning he couldn't sit until he was nearly 15 months, and even now requires support in order not to slump.

But we muddled through and had shit days, and asked for a lot of help and bought and sold many buggies on ebay to find something easier.

But the struggles with the dds were temporary, and ultimately get overable, the struggles for ds and for other disabled people will always be there.

I find it odd that you keep throwing at us a situation that has never actually occurred, as if this is something that happens frequently.

Yeah, frequently, Retro and you keep coming back because you don't give in to bullies. Who is bullying you and how?

Now, as for the other stuff:
Booting a new mum onto a dual carriageway on an hourly service is not on If Mum is organised enough, it isn't going to happen. Oh, and booting a person who happens to need a wheelchair off is far, far worse.

Saying mums of multiples can't travel on buses is exchanging one group for another. Nobody has said this, we have said, get a decent buggy and learn to fold. Your 15 month olds will be alright for a short period on a bus with others. Otherwise learn to pass them round more among their friends. I have told you many, many times, I had three under 19 months. All three autistic and one with other disabilities, I managed, as did they, which leads us to our next point:

Sorry Dizzy the cheap umbrellas don't steer and are impossible to move with 2 and a buggy board. Bunkum is my word of the day. My Maclaren managed well and that was 17 years ago.

Voicing concern and raising an issue is not whinging or being entitled
No, it isn't, and if that's what you were doing, that would be perfectly acceptable and understandable, but it isn't, is it, if it were, then surely people would be saying: 'hang on a minute, Retro has a point', and yet...

Not what I am saying at all Alice. I didn't mean special In That way and you know it so please don't use that tone in your post. As someone who's had to be wheeling her DM around in her wheelchair all week I find it patronising and know ALL too well what it is like on the receiving end. To the point we WALKED home last night from the Hospital rather than getting the bus as we didn't want to have to encounter any shoppers who would refuse to move out of the designated space! People really need to stop picking over words on these bunfight threads its completely unnecessary! I was trying to offer a solution not demonize.

Alice - ds is a blondie, so more like David Soul in his ill advised moustachioed days (child of the 70s!)

In fact, we should do a bloody survey. Has anyone on mumsnet ever had to leave a bus so that a wheelchair

No, but I've seen a bus driver refuse to allow a wheel chair user to board because the selfish parents with buggies refused to move from the WHEELCHAIR SPACE

My dd has been on the receiving end of that, too, UptheChimney.

Slightly off topic but my bug bear with public transport is people not in a wc or no pram sitting in these spaces when there is room on the bus n they aren't asked to move. Also why do 2 adults have to sit with 1 pram, it means I am left with choice of sitting at the back of the bus (which ain't going to happen ) with baby in the pram or left dancing in the aisle of the bus. Moving in at every stop so people can get on n off! Bus driver don't say anything n its up to u to confront them, make sure u tread on their toes at every opportunity!

Actually Miss I DIDN'T know what you meant - not a mind reader. I simply responded to someone saying the following: I still think a special buggy bus would be a good idea. We have the fold down seats where I live (East Midlands). If they had a bus that had the fold down seats along both sides that maybe ran once an hour then all wheelchairs and buggies can get on?

There was no patronising at all. Just pointing out that while you may call it a special bus, many will call it a "special" bus, with all the derogatory meaning that may follow. I have lived in the states, and the references to the "special" school bus and the "short" bus were not lost on me. I heard them loads of times.

My concern with pointing wheelchair users to a special bus that only travels once an hour is that initially it'll be an option, then it'll be "we're just allowing wheelchair users on the special bus as it's better equipped to handle the wheelchairs." and Voila! Segregation, with lesser bus service for the disabled. And if it's lesser times, then if one doesn't show for one reason or another, they could be waiting much much longer for a bus.

I just don't think the answer is to make a special bus available. I think the answer is to ensure that all buses have the spot available for wheelchair users.

Please note - I was pointing out that regardless of what good intentions the idea was, it could lead to lesser service and be highly detrimental to wheelchair users.

The whole point of fighting for access was integration, not segregation.

" I think the answer is to ensure that all buses have the spot available for wheelchair users."

Yes, there should be a place kept for wheelchair users who need it - well ideally more than one, what if two wheelchairs need a space?

But there should also be buggy space - babies and toddlers can wait at the side of the road, embark and travel more safely if strapped in, surely.

Exactly, Dawndonna. The moment a separate bus to use for wheelchair users would appear, it would instantly wipe out all the progress made by the campaign to get the wheelchair place on all the buses.

oh heavens. it's round 2.

But there should also be buggy space - babies and toddlers can wait at the side of the road, embark and travel more safely if strapped in, surely.
So go fight for it then, like I did.

I used the wrong word admittedly but it was by no means done on purpose. I appreciate no one has the time but all of my previous posts on this and other threads have shown my stance on priority spaces/wheelchair spaces. Including when someone more or less stopped short of calling a lady in a wheelchair a self entitled twat for being absolutely frustrated with the people who wouldn't move out of her designated space. I meant it in the way that. Where we live there are three fold down seats each side. One where a wheelchair can be placed with the bar and for two buggies to get the other side if needed. I can see however how my post might come across in the wrong tone. I am not half looking forward to asking ignorant shopping trolley people to move their arse when encountering them on DMs next hospital visit. . I really don't see the issue. I had a double from mothercare. It folded singlehandedly. A wheelchair user can't just get up and fold their wheelchair like a mother can. Ask the driver to wait whilst you safely seat your children or plonk them in someone's lap. I always did and they always complied. It really isn't that hard.

Can someon explain to me why a newly delivered woman, who's recovering from a c-section with a newborn & a young toddler (for example) would automatically be a lower priority than someone in a wheelchair?

Ive seen plenty of good sturdy twin buggies retro.

All ive seen from you is whining and wailing about how your life is so hard. Three (excluding disabilities being thrown into the mix) children isn't that difficult. You have poo pood every suggestion made to you so in nit going to waste my energy making any more.

Most people can buy a stroller without physical implications. The stroller i bought today handles perfectly well, i love it.

And as i said most people can afford one.

I say this as a public transport user and someone who appreciates a nice big tank of a travel system.

But there is a time and a place. If every parent bought the most practical for transport needs then more people would have sympathy for those who genuinely cant.

Fact is though its a wheelchair space. Not a buggy space. Suck it up and get on with it.

Miss Exactly. We're on the same side of the argument. I was merely pointing out how badly that idea could go due to the ignorance of others. I think we all know how quickly such thinking can lead to segregation of those that are disabled from society.

Can someon explain to me why a newly delivered woman, who's recovering from a c-section with a newborn & a young toddler (for example) would automatically be a lower priority than someone in a wheelchair?

Wellllll, let's see. Is she in a wheelchair? I suppose we can all find a gazillion extenuating circumstances - you know - someone that's got multiples, a bad back, ingrown toenail, an extra toddler, and unable to fold their pushchair. But guess what? It's not a wheelchair.

If those that use pushchairs want a priority spot for pushchairs, go fight for it.

Can someon explain to me why a newly delivered woman, who's recovering from a c-section with a newborn & a young toddler (for example) would automatically be a lower priority than someone in a wheelchair?

Quite simple really.

The space is for a wheelchair user and she isn't a wheelchair user.

After a caesarean you are supposed to avoid lifting anything heavier than your baby. Lifting a heavy pram, a baby & a toddler is going to result in masses of pain & probable injury. Unless there's a legal obligation for bus drivers to assist people in this position it doesn't seem fair. It's not the not having a seat which would be a problem this instance.

Re the old days they had more space and less rows were reserved for the elderly

On our buses the elderly/disabled spaces go some way back now.

I can't believe I'm reading this! One thing we can all be sure of -- we'll all be old one day. Still, being old is better than the alternative

Let me tell you, retro of my brief experience of temporary disability. I lost of the use of my dominant arm and shoulder for almost 18 months. Some of that time I had the arm in a sling -- fairly obvious indication of limited use, you'd think. Because my job was such that it was almost impossible to replace me, as we were short staffed and I was the boss, I kept working throughout the whole time, even though it made the damage worse for a while, and I was exhausted. I travelled to work on a bus, taking care to travel out of peak time because a crowded bus was actually a scenario for further damage and pain.

Yet regularly the entire disabled area wheelchair space and front rows of seats for easy access for those with disabilities were clogged into the aisle with prams. Unfolded. Pram handles sticking out and causing a hazard to those of us who had to make our way to the back of the bus. The mothers sitting down in the disabled seats. I had to cling, one-armed and quite unstable, to a pole several days in a row, until one day a lovely elderly man a few rows back, got up, held my good side and ushered me to a seat. I'll never forget that. Just as I'll never forget the several mothers who were too absorbed in their mobile phones to behave like decent human beings. I ended up walking to work once I was strong enough to do so far more pleasant, if exhausting, than dealing with such rudeness every day.

My disability lasted less than 18 months and was fixed by further surgery. But it was a humbling insight into what those with permanent disabilities endure every single day of their lives.

I've done the situation red mentioned. Had to get to mum's, couldn't drive as recent c sec. Went to get bus with DS1 then 14 months and not walking in a maclaren umbrella fold and newborn DS2 in a sling.

Bus arrives, has steps. So I ask driver to come and get DS1 (explained why) and he did. Carried now folded buggy up steps too (I was only passenger at this point).

Did the reverse at the other end, too.

I did this thing called asking for help.