Buggies must be folded by law, if a wheelchair user wishes to board

[BerniceBroadside]

I know this can be a hot topic so thought I'd share that stagecoach have new signs on their buses stating that buggies must be folded by law if a wheelchair user wishes to board. Let's hope it's actually enforced.

I very much doubt it Invisible.

If it comes under any Act at all it'll be the DDA, but that law does not place a responsibility on an individual - just on service providers etc. So Stagecoach would need the cooperation of the buggie user in order to discharge it's responsibilities under the DDA.

However all the Stagecoach website says as a Condition of Carriage:

•Have due regard at all times for the needs of our elderly, young and disabled customers and, in particular, vacate seats and spaces designed for the elderly and disabled when requested

That makes it a contractual condition that the Stagecoach user has to comply with and not a 'law'.

I hate it when people burst into print with 'The law says...''

People should ask - which law?

Thank you Rodney. We cross-posted.

I'll read that case.

The DDA no longer exists. Was superseded by Equality Act.

On the stagecoach buses there is a sticker that now states the law is that buggies and small prams must be folded if a wheelchair user wants to use the space.

I've read the case. It is a judegment under the Equality Act - really sensible one too.

Thanks to those how pointed me to the law.

Haven't quite rtft but just wanted to thank everyone making it clear from both legal and moral standpoints why there is no question ever that WC user is given use of the WC space on buses. Some WC users/ carers obviously are at the very end of their tethers with even having to make this explanation; I really appreciate the efforts.

The short version is: if you are a buggy user who finds it awful and not actually practical to remove or fold your buggy, because of your own disability or because you have multiple children, you need to address your outrage to service providers, and possibly the government because there is currently no provision for you. You should be thanking disabled people and those caring for them that there is nevertheless the possibility that you could use buses anyway, in the case that the WC space is available.

I can't think of a time when I've been on a bus and a wheelchair user has boarded that bus.

I did see a very unpleasant incidemnt where 2 women with buggies were daggers drawn at each other as one lady and her partner took the drop down seats forcing the other mother to sit away from her buggy.

Just read that bbc link.

Justine Roberts, co-founder of online forum Mumsnet said: I don't think anyone has any beef with moving over for wheelchairs

Really Justine? I'm sure you are busy, but have you ever read the buggies in wheelchair users spaces threads?

The buses where I live describe themselves as buggy friendly but make it clear that wheelchair users have priority in the spaces.

19 years ago when I had my first I didn't stop going out of the house because buses weren't wheelchair friendly. I just walked or folded the bloody thing.

Until recently women had been doing it forever, people still managed to get out and about and got on with their lives.

Folded the pushchair that is!

Haven't got my glasses on, lying awake in hospital... Read thread title as budgies must be folded shuffling off now...

It's really a non issue..or should be.

I couldn't fold when DO was young. .she couldn't weight bear or hold head up properly til nearly 2 and was floppy.

So..on the couple of occasions someone in a wheelchair got on bus..I got off.

There are already buses with buggy spaces. Our stagecoach buses have 3 in addition to the wheelchair space. Admittedly one is only big enough for a small buggy at the foot of the wheelchair space.

A while ago I posted this thead

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1909940-The-bus-the-wheelchair-the-buggy-and-2-little-old-ladies-with-shopping-trolleys

which shows that at least one bus driver in these parts knows how it should be.

My DCs were born in the 80s when I had to have a collapsible buggy if I wanted to use buses as well as a big pram for walking out and about. I'm glad that young mums no longer have to struggle in order to use public transport around here.

However, I think some need to make more careful choices when choosing buggies if they intend using public transport as their main way of getting around. There will be the odd occasion when they may have to fold the buggy so it seems daft to choose one that they cannot fold.

To people that say they can't fold the buggy due to disabily /shopping/too scare to public /twins.
May I remind them that we did not have wheelchair spaces you would not getting on buses either.

Dh has the car today.
I'm getting the bus with dd. I just shouted down to him to please get my "bus buggy out of the boot"
I don't even try to take my big "walking buggy" on.
What I have noticed recently though is that once folded there is nowhere to put it on many buses which means you end up ramming it in the seat with you and a toddler which takes up two seats when I could just use one.
It's also a Shame how you can be struggling with bags, a buggy and baby and not one person offers to help.
No wonder wheelchair users get fucked off.
Nobody seems to give a shit these days.

Those people who won't fold their prams (as opposed to those who are unable to due to their/their childs disability) if they only way you could fit onto the bus would you fold then? Or would you keep on standing out in the cold until another bus came along and hope you could get on that one?

Whilst I absolutely agree wheelchairs take priority I have huge sympathy for parents with buggies on buses. For everyone who has to do either, every day, I take my hat off to you.

I find the buggy on a bus extremely stressful. If you have a sleeping child and a mountain of shopping and a wheelchair comes on its a bloody nightmare and our buses struggle to fit both.
I am lucky that I can drive and afford a car and I am extremely grateful for that.

councils want more of us to take the bus? What a bloody laugh.

I do have a very small buggy I can use on the bus but where do you put the thing?!

I am glad someone pointed out that article was over 3 years old. I was about to start yelling about "Justine Roberts, co-founder of online forum Mumsnet, said: "I don't think anyone has any beef with moving over for wheelchairs."

I'm guessing Justine's views may have changed a little on that point, after 3 years of threads like this.

Every time we have one of these threads, people say "someone" should start a campaign. But no-one ever seems to want to be that "someone."

If people feel so strongly that this is discrimination, or a risk to the safety, then crack on and get a campaign organised. Like the disability campaigners did.

I suspect a large part of the reluctance to do so is that people know, deep down, that the reasons for a wheelchair space are fundamental and rooted in the need for equality and inclusion, whereas the reasons for buggy spaces are rooted in convenience and the desire for choice.

Nothing wrong with that, but people aren't going to get quite so excited about a campaign for something that would be nice and handy to have, as opposed to something that allows a whole section of society to access an important facility that is otherwise barred to them. The wheelchair space campaign took, in theory, society forward, in terms of equality. A buggy space is just a handy thing to have. People probably won't be dancing in the streets about it.

Wherever you can. Sometimes there's just no choice. The bus back from the school is heaving most days. Forget the wheel chair space and the buggy space the other side those are usually taken by others who were on first. You just jam it anywhere you can and hope to god at least your dd/Ds gets a seat.

When there's no choice you just do your best. It's all you can do. When you buy a ticket you arebt paying for a seat your just paying fir the journey.

Haven't read the whole thread, but remember using the bus twice with my twins, it's impossible to collapse twin buggy whilst holding two under ones who can't walk, luckily I had a car so it wasn't a big issue for me but both times I used bus I was nervous wreck as although no wheelchair user got on there was a lot of tutting as I tried to manoeuvre into small space

Tbh the least of anyone's worries is the Wc user. A person boarding the bus needing to use their space- well that is their right and something you are aware of when you get the bus and ya get on with it , fuss free and if no one helps , ya make sure you plonk the baby on their lap anyway :o

It's the - I'll keep my head down playing with my phone and pretend I haven't noticed you brigade that are the problem.

I took my biggish carrycot on the bus a few times after my section but just kind of resigned myself to the fact I might have to get off or wait for next bus etc. it feels a lot less stressfull if you are forewarned.

I was recently discussing which pushchair to get for new baby with DH, having read plenty of posts like this, I was saying to him that we need one which is very easy to fold , folds small and is light. He said, no, we need one which we can fit all the shopping under and is good and sturdy.
I said but what if I am on the bus and a wheelchair user needs my space? , I need to be able to take the shopping and baby out and fold it quickly and it needs to fit in the luggage rack.
He pointed out to me that in years of daily bus use neither of us have ever seen this happen, so it would be a pretty stupid thing to base our purchase on, leaving us unable to get the shopping we need home easily.
If it does happen we will deal with it, but really, we are neither selfish or stupid for getting a pushchair that suits our needs rather than a theoretical possibility.