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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder why men are almost always the non-resident parent

507 replies

womblesofwestminster · 15/12/2013 19:57

Yes, I know I could win an award for most clueless person, but please humour me.

Why is it that when parents separate, it's almost always the mother that the children live with and who has to do the bulk of the mundane parts of the childcare? While daddy gets to pay a cash sum each week, pursue his own interests most of the time and then be Disney the rest of the time.

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

OP posts:
bibliomania · 16/12/2013 12:16

Woah, that refers to me, I presume, Mumallthetime? Well, I've got yet another meeting with a social worker this week and am back in court in Jan and have incurred legal fees of over £15,000 trying to stop my exH getting more and more access, so no, talk hasn't been cheap for me.

marmaladeandguitars · 16/12/2013 12:21

Fair enough- though the CSA is pretty awful, and I can't blame some people for not wanting anything to do with them, sometimes for more stress than it's worth. I have seen a friend of mine absolutely distraught, because thanks to a CSA balls up, they claimed she owed her ex £800 of maintenance due to an over payment. She didn't- it eventually got sorted after a few weeks, but at the time she was very vulnerable, struggling massively, and didn't need the added complications.

I don't know about the mothers who claim abuse but still maintain contact- I'm sure it happens, but I'm also fairly sure that it happens a lot less than cases of NRPS who don't bother with their kids

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 12:24

biblio - that is exactly my point.

Despite significant financial and emotional expenditure you have been unable to protect your DC to the extent you would like.

Yet, on this thread, the fact that a Dad doesn't have regular, significant contact with his DC's is being used as evidence that he isn't doing anything - after all, if abusive Dads like your ex can secure contact, then how hard can it be? It doesn't seem to matter how much effort a Dad puts in, unless he can prove what he has done to see his DC's then he should be considered to be "all words and no action" by default.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 12:26

though the CSA is pretty awful, and I can't blame some people for not wanting anything to do with them, sometimes for more stress than it's worth.

I can assure you that dealing with the CSA cock-ups is a walk in the park compared to most NRP experience of family court (I've done both).
If a RP cannot be blamed for wanting to avoid the stress of the CSA, why the hell should NRP be casigated for avoiding the stress of family court? Surely both ultimately fail the DC's?

MummySantaHoHoHo · 16/12/2013 12:34

In my experience in the real world men and women are just as bad as each other for having affairs - but a mother having an affair rarely results in her leaving fmh or losing her children.

Of the NRPs I know who don't or rarely see their children, 2 are women, 2 are men.. Of these 4, 2 women pay nothing, 1 man pays and 1 doesn't.

The men - one who doesn't and has not paid since they were small children are grown up) he was banned from contact and doesn't know where they are - he freely admits he was a complete and utter tosser and wishes he had been different, The other man has been to hell and back and pays but has no contact.

The women - 1 doesn't think she did ever did anything wrong, 1 insists the father (rp) has distorted everything - children feel abandoned (I know dcs who are late teens now) but regardless has never paid maint.

On breakdown of relationship - 3 out of 4 (2 rp men 1 rp woman) kept the fmh.

marmaladeandguitars · 16/12/2013 12:37

I don't think failing to chase up CSA for a couple of quid is in quite the same as making no effort to pursue a relationship with one's child. Unless the CSA amount is such that it would make a massive difference to the child's quality of life, but I'm sure in those circumstance the RP would push for maintenance.

Also, in my friend's case (anecdotal, I know) as the RP, after a horrible, traumatic separation, she had a lot more to deal with than her ex did, frankly. The CSA overpayment was the straw that broke the camel's back, in that instance, on top of everything else.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 12:39

If a RP cannot be blamed for wanting to avoid the stress of the CSA, why the hell should NRP be casigated for avoiding the stress of family court? Surely both ultimately fail the DC's?

Well, one of those results in probably not getting any financial help from your childrens other parent. That isn't you failing your child, if the other parent just paid up, you wouldn't need to CSA in the first place.

The other, results in not seeing your children.

I know which one of those I'd let slide and which one I wouldn't.

Shallol · 16/12/2013 12:47

Let slide? Not everyone can afford to spend upwards of £5000 to gain a piece of paper that is not even really enforceable, only to have to go back to court again and again, defend outrageous lies while your ex is at home saying "he's not called daddy, you have to call him [name]", telling horror stories about the NRPs home or family.

Would I let that slide? No. Can I see why people stop trying? And why is this all the NRPs fault for not spending thousands and hours upon hours, and not the RPs for being so self centred that they can't see the damage they do to their own child by unnecessarily withholding contact?

We had to report the ex wife for emotional abuse to the children (based on advice from CAFCASS and solicitor). Children's services says this - RPs using their children as pawns - happens all the time.

marmaladeandguitars · 16/12/2013 12:47

Amberleaf exactly. A good NRP should automatically be willing to help out his own children financially.

Maybe I've just been spoiled- I know quite a few men who are brilliant dads, and who despite living apart from their children, put them first in every way.Their ex partners would be the first to admit it. It can be done, and it means I lose patience a bit with the lazy sods who just can't be bothered.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 12:56

if the other parent just paid up, you wouldn't need to CSA in the first place.

..if the RP valued the role of the NRP in the DC's life, then you wouldn't need contact enforcement orders in the first place.

A good NRP should automatically be willing to help out his own children financially.

...and a good RP should faciliate a meaningful relationship between her DC's and their Dad.

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot · 16/12/2013 12:56

"I don't know about the mothers who claim abuse but still maintain contact- I'm sure it happens, but I'm also fairly sure that it happens a lot less than cases of NRPS who don't bother with their kids"

They have nothing to do with each other though do they? Why when someone says, "A PWC can and does sometimes obstruct contact" is the typical response so often "well yes, but the number of PWCs obstructing contact is much lower than NRPs who don't bother".

They are completely unrelated. Both are wrong. An NRP being obstructed contact shouldn't be considered any less worthy of support just because there are a large number of NRPs who are crap.

Keep them separate. It's not a competition on who is the hardest done by and that is what these types of threads normally cause.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 12:58

Let slide? Not everyone can afford to spend upwards of £5000 to gain a piece of paper that is not even really enforceable

We're not talking about NRPs saying they can't go to court because of finances though are we?

I appreciate cost is a huge factor, but this conversation was about the excuses people sometimes make as to why they didn't go to court, ones that often miraculously don't apply once they have a new partner to impress.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 13:00

if the RP valued the role of the NRP in the DC's life, then you wouldn't need contact enforcement orders in the first place

There is so much more to it than that.

That is the only 'version' we will ever hear from someone whos DH/DP had to go to court with his exw though.

Shallol · 16/12/2013 13:02

The court process does not impress new partners. It brings so much stress, puts a huge strain on the new relationship and can often lead to no increased contact if the RP refuses to comply.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 13:03

They are completely unrelated. Both are wrong

Thing is, when a PWC is on a thread like this telling of her experience, you will always get women [on the whole] who have DH/DPs with a contact blocking exw, coming on with their 'antidote' story.

marmaladeandguitars · 16/12/2013 13:03

Yes, sorry Brandybuck, you are right and they should be kept seperate.

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot · 16/12/2013 13:04

".That is the only 'version' we will ever hear from someone whos DH/DP had to go to court with his exw though."

Amber - are you saying that an unreasonable RP who obstructs contact because they do no like their ex and out of spite never happens? (That's how it reads to me due to : "version")

Is there always much more to it or do some RPs not just be awkward to spite their exes? Because I know for certain it happens.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 13:05

I'm sure it is stressful Shallol. I don't doubt that at all.

What I do doubt, is the integrity of a NRP who only gets an interest in their child when they have a new partner.

marmaladeandguitars · 16/12/2013 13:06

if the RP valued the role of the NRP in the DC's life, then you wouldn't need contact enforcement orders in the first place

Eh? That's rubbish, really. Sometimes two people can't agree and it needs a third party input. In some scenarios,I don't think involving a court is necessarily a bad thing, and it isn't an automatic consequence of an RP not valuing the role of the NRP.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 13:06

The court process destroys relationships.

My DH and are are currently discussing the practicalities of living separately (and denying my DD a continued relationship with her DSDad) in order to remove one of the obstacles that have been identified as in the way of contact between them.

Shallol · 16/12/2013 13:06

Yes, Amber, because both exist! There are great RPs and NRPs and rubbish ones too.

Shallol · 16/12/2013 13:07

Marmalade, that's what mediation is for, not court.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 13:08

Eh? That's rubbish, really. Sometimes two people can't agree and it needs a third party input.

Contact enforcement orders, marmalade - you know, when a Court has made an order, but the RP doesn't stick to it, despite being ordered to?

I agree that an initial contact/residency order can be a good thing - but they are totally worthless if the person on wehom the order is made (usually the RP) refuses to accept the decision of the Court.

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot · 16/12/2013 13:09

"
Thing is, when a PWC is on a thread like this telling of her experience, you will always get women [on the whole] who have DH/DPs with a contact blocking exw, coming on with their 'antidote' story."

Generally in response to the "my ex is a crap NRP and all men are selfish" posts by RPs who have rubbish exes.

Those who post about their experiences of their DP/DHs don't tend to then accuse all mothers of being bitter, spiteful people who use their children as weapons though. Probably because a lot of them are Mothers themselves and can acknowledge that some people (regardless of gender) are just crap.

IneedAsockamnesty · 16/12/2013 13:09

...and a good RP should faciliate a meaningful relationship between her DC's and their Dad

Or how about shouldn't hinder it rather than facilitate.

A good dad wouldn't need something made easier.