to wonder why men are almost always the non-resident parent

[womblesofwestminster]

Yes, I know I could win an award for most clueless person, but please humour me.

Why is it that when parents separate, it's almost always the mother that the children live with and who has to do the bulk of the mundane parts of the childcare? While daddy gets to pay a cash sum each week, pursue his own interests most of the time and then be Disney the rest of the time.

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

edit; that should have said 'plenty of willing ears to listen' not willing 'wars'

Thank you Mumallthetime.

I do consider each case on individual merit. but I have heard enough to know bullshit when I hear it.

I my opinion..

Men are more likely to be the ones who get up and leave the relationship and the kids.

However, I think lots of women fight for or accept a greater share of residency than they want or can handle because of the stigma of being the mum who didn't want her kids!

Well, sometimes they ARE awful - unless you are advocating double standards when Mum has an OM, compared to Dad having an OW?

Well, I didn't comment on other anybodies and was talking about break ups in general so no double standards advocated. But if I think of the RP being to blame for the split, maybe she cheated or something and ended the marriage to get with the new man, I'd just say that gives the NRP an even bigger sob story to manipulate with the new partner if he chooses too. It then lets him completely ignore any of his failings that might affect how much contact he gets (eg didnt do any childcare before the split, rarely bothered with the children, hasn't bothered since the split until he met the new gf) because he gets to say "well, she cheated so none of its my fault. It's not my fault I don't see my children, it's hers" which is automatic sympathy from a lot of sympathy from a lot of people and an automatic excuse for why they haven't pursued contact or why contact isn't as much as they'd like.

Rather than reveal the real reason to anybody (including new partners) they can just chunter on about how she's just being a bitch, she wants to play happy families with the new man, she's trying to erase him from their lives. Meanwhile really the ex wife chased him for ages arranging contact and only reduced the offer to a set amount of a couple of hours for the children's sake but that doesn't look so desirable to new partners or anyone with a heart and brain.

Buffy - being a SAHM doesn't mean you shirk all responsibility outside working hours! I used to be a SAHM too - I appreciated that my (nowex)H would also want to relax on holiday. I never said anything about her "earning her right to be SAHM". How silly. Being a SAHM is hard. So is going out to work. Outside of those times I believe parents should share the responsibility, not dump it all on one person.

if I think of the RP being to blame for the split, maybe she cheated or something and ended the marriage to get with the new man, I'd just say that gives the NRP an even bigger sob story to manipulate with the new partner if he chooses too.

Yeah - cos heaven forbid he should be hurt/upset and sad that his exW broke up the family by having an affair; her infidelity just gives him the opportunity to play the victim and win the sympathy vote.

I suggest you run that past some of the (justifiably) hurt/angry Mums on the Lone Parents board who have been cheated on.

Of course there are a (small) propotion of Dads who have been cheated on and are also crap parents, have failed to make any effort to see their DC's since the split and who wear their victim t-shirt with pride but I suspect they are few and far between. I've never read of such a case on MN, despite thousands of posts from resident Mums with crap ex's.

There seem to be lots of crap Dads who have affairs, not many seem to be cheated on, though?

And yes I'm sure plenty of husbands do show the RP in a bad light. In our case, we don't need to. Like I said, her own solicitor called her unhinged. She is manipulative, outright lied about domestic violence claims in court and is obstructive with contact even when she admits she has no credible reason to do so. How do I know he's a good dad? Because I see how it tears him apart to be away from his children, I see how he is a fantastic step father to my children and how excited he gets about contact with his own. I see how he spent the first 6 months after the split doing everything he could to make her happy because he felt so guilty for leaving because he couldn't cut contact with her parents for her. He still tries to do everything as amicably as possible even when she puts every barrier possible in the way.

Be cynical if you want but sometimes the RP is the one at fault and is damaging her own children in the process.

Men are more likely to be the ones who get up and leave the relationship and the kids.

IME relationship break-downs are instigated by men and women in pretty much equal measure. But it is more likely that if there are children then it will be the man moving out rather than the woman.

I also agree that men are being advised by resolution solicitors not to fight for residency or even 50:50 shared residency.

My DP has 50:50 residency of his two children and has been advised by two different solicitors not to put a foot wrong as his ex could easily apply to Court and get majority residency.

I didn't say it did shallol. It's just a bit rich to complain about doing some of the childcare before the split and also complain about not getting the chance to do as much as would be liked after. But anyway, my point was you don't know if the ex dumped everything on your partner or just asked for a balanced amount of shared responsibilities because you weren't there. You only have what he says to go on.

mumallthetime, did you read the rest of my post? That comment was in context of using the sob story not just for sympathy but to bat away any of his own failings that contribute to his not having contact. And we must be reading a different mumsnet. There are regularly women posting as the new partner of a man who is always described as a wonderful dad (despite not trying to see his children until he met this new partner) and they often trot out the line "and she was the one who cheated on him!" when trying to excuse his lack of trying to get contact.

There seem to be lots of crap Dads who have affairs, not many seem to be cheated on, though?

The last statistics I saw suggested that men and women have affairs pretty much equally. Not that you'd know this from threads on MN, of course. On the rare threads here where women do admit to having an affair it's always couched in terms of "The relationship was pretty much dead by then anyway". Exactly the same kind of excuse that men get absolutely castigated on here for saying when it's them that's having the affair. Funny old world, isn't it?

He didn't complain about doing it. When he told me I was shocked that she didn't spend any time with her children or give him chance to relax on holiday. He thought it was normal.
And frankly I disagree. So if he had have complained about not ever getting a break, that means he should be happy with 1.5hours supervised contact, being watched over by the ex wife and not even being allowed to take a photo? That's acceptable? That's fair? That's good for the children? Remember she has no basis for welfare concerns, CAFCASS said there were none and she has since pulled all concerns as she couldn't provide a shred of evidence that he was a risk to his own children.
We don't have to know things for definite to make judgements and there is no absolute "truth". On the balance of probabilities and given that my DF is the most caring, gentle (verging on doormat) man I've ever met, I'll draw my own conclusions.

My DF felt like he didn't deserve contact. From what he's told me, it's pretty clear there was ongoing emotional abuse from her to him and when I met him he was like a shadow. He didn't know he could stand up for himself. He didn't know he had to fight for his children. He got constantly told he was "taking them out of their lives" and "normalising divorce". Does it frustrate me when he doesn't push harder for contact? Yes. But he's like this because he constantly puts others first. All I did was teach him that he matters as a person, that children need their dad and boost his self esteem enough to see what a great father he actually is.

Attitudes like this just fed into his concern - he left so he must be at fault, right? That's what he thought. He thought he was one of those dads that had ruined everything.

I also agree that men are being advised by resolution solicitors not to fight for residency or even 50:50 shared residency

Maybe this is the answer to the OP's question - not that there are more crap dads who want to shirk responsibility than there are responsible Dads, but that the responsible Dads are being discouraged from taking equal responsibility by society and the system.

If Dads are told don't ask for too much, you'll appear unreasonable and Mums are told don't offer too much, you'll be seen as uncaring, then the inevitable consequence is that DC's end up in the primary care of their Mum.

I come on here to offload about my arse of an ex too. But I find it quite easy not to tar all women with the same brush in doing so.

And if I seem forceful it's because I feel that way. He is a good man, a good father and a good partner. He pays child maintenance above the CSA rate (he was originally paying double what they suggested), he never misses a contact session. He should be praised, as RPs and indeed all parents should be praised when they are acting in the best interests of their children, not have it suggested that maybe he's lying to make himself look better!

And there we get to the full story. Which is the same as every other new partner post ever. He didn't know he had to fight. He didn't know he could. He didn't want to disrupt their lives. He only didn't do it because he was putting them first. I might be harsh and cynical but all I see are excuses to explain not bothering with contact that make him look good in the eyes of his new partner. Exactly what I was saying before. Are there ever any men who tell their new partners they didn't pursue contact because it was easier? Less hassle? No, because it isn't as attractive as the poor me, evil cow approach.

I do 100% of the work and pay for 100% of all expenses. DD's dad does his bit - he turns up sometimes (when he feels like it) stays for an hour or two (in that time he eats our food and uses our computer) then disappears again (sometimes for months on end). That is his choice and there is little I can do about it. My experience is that men don't do much childcare, if any, because they are far too selfish and far too lazy.

There are plenty of men out there saying they wish they had more time with their children, but many of them are lying to make themselves look better to others. Don't be a mug by believing them.

And there we get to the full story. Which is the same as every other new partner post ever. He didn't know he had to fight. He didn't know he could. He didn't want to disrupt their lives. He only didn't do it because he was putting them first.

Buffy I think you've been cherry picking what you read!

Have you not seen the dozens of posts from "new partners" who are the catalyst that leads to withholding/reduced contact, and even more frequent posts from Resident Mums who wish to withhold contact because their ex has a girlfriend who he has/wants to introduce to the DC's?

In those cases, contact has been successful, sometimes for years, and the "new" partner (when does one cease to be new btw?) is seen as a threat to the DC's.

In other cases, unrealted events (disputs over money, differences in parenting style etc) lead to breakdown in contact. While there are some situations in which the "new" partner could reasonably deduce that their beau was a shit Dad, in many others, it is his commitmen to parenting that they are attracted to - which makes it all the more painful when they (the new partner) is held responsible for the breakdown in contact.

He went every week without fail for the only contact he was allowed. He drove 1 hour to get there, was watched over for 1.5hours and then drove an hour back. He couldn't take them out. He couldn't take photos.

Be cynical all you like. I've watched him sit and sob because he didn't know what to do - because he had spent 12 years being emotionally abused to the point of being a shell who didn't even know he had a say. While I'm sure there are fathers that use this as an excuse is not one of life's shirkers and I'm sure he is not alone. Since he's met me and had therapy to overcome his guilt and shame and grief he's fought relentless in a child focused way. Unlike her.

DD's dad does his bit - he turns up sometimes (when he feels like it) stays for an hour or two (in that time he eats our food and uses our computer) then disappears again (sometimes for months on end). That is his choice and there is little I can do about it.

There are plenty of men out there saying they wish they had more time with their children, but many of them are lying to make themselves look better to others

.......and there are plenty of Resident Mums like yourself who play the victim and claim they can do nothing. Really? He forces his way in? Steals your food and forces you to allow him to use your computer and gunpoint?

Rubbish. If you want to claim that the majority of men are irresponsible, then expect to be accused of enabling it.

And I might point out that it was the RP explicitly saying those things, that he was taking them out of their lives and didn't deserve contact. How do I know that? I saw the emails she sent.

agree that it is incredibly easy for NRP to lie through their teeth in regards to the evil ex/contact with children.

Actions speak louder than words. Anybody can say how hard they fought to see their kids, but what did they actually do

The answer is usually a hop, skip and a jump away from 'nothing'.

Talk is cheap.

marmalade just as easy as it is for the RP to say that their ex is abusive/useless/irrepsonsible - but what do they DO about it?

Even on this thread, a post from a mum who sometimes withholds contact because they believe that their DC is at risk of abuse, but at other times, allows contact to go ahead. Daily threads from Mums who "don't want" to call the CSA, because they've heard they're useless/know their ex will hide income etc.

Considering the tools available - such as applying for supervised or indirect contact or using the CSA to secure maintenance - the lack of action on the part of some resident parents suggests that their talk is just as cheap.