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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to wonder why men are almost always the non-resident parent

507 replies

womblesofwestminster · 15/12/2013 19:57

Yes, I know I could win an award for most clueless person, but please humour me.

Why is it that when parents separate, it's almost always the mother that the children live with and who has to do the bulk of the mundane parts of the childcare? While daddy gets to pay a cash sum each week, pursue his own interests most of the time and then be Disney the rest of the time.

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

OP posts:

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 13:09

are you saying that an unreasonable RP who obstructs contact because they do no like their ex and out of spite never happens?

I think that lots of adults behave in very immature and selfish ways, in all manner of situations.

I do not think that the majority of families involved in the family courts are there because the exw is being spiteful. Not by a long stretch.

I do think that [as has been discussed upthread] that lots of NRPs foist all of the 'blame' onto the RP and acknowledge nothing in their own actions that has been contributory.

Shallol · 16/12/2013 13:10

Sometimes I don't even think it's spite - I think they are genuinely deluded enough to think that their children will be better off without contact with their own father. The damage that DFs ex wife does to her children - she can't realise what she's doing. She must be "unhinged", as her solicitor says.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 13:11

Thing is, when a PWC is on a thread like this telling of her experience, you will always get women [on the whole] who have DH/DPs with a contact blocking exw, coming on with their 'antidote' story.

I can't speak for others, but my "antidote" story only gets trotted out when I see generalisations made about ALL NRP.
I accept that some are crap - but just because there are some crap Dads out there doesn't make all of them the same.

Shallol · 16/12/2013 13:12

No, all advice from the courts and CAFCASS and anyone else who knows how to manage parent-child relationships after separation says that each parent should facilitate and encourage contact with the other parent. Divorce is a scary and confusing time for a child, they need both parents encouragement to get through it.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 13:13

Generally in response to the "my ex is a crap NRP and all men are selfish" posts by RPs who have rubbish exes

Did you see Mumallthetimes post to me upthread?

I got that sort of response because she assumed I was one of those RPs.

My childrens father isn't crap, but I still hold the views I do, because I know how common disinterested fathers and those that enable them are.

Shallol · 16/12/2013 13:16

It's not about making it easier for the dad, contact isn't about being nice to the dad, it's about the child's right to a relationship with his/her father, and making it as easy as possible for the child to do so, without the guilt that mummy is being left alone, without telling the child that daddy has "taken all the money" or whatever other tripe gets trotted out. It's for the child.

JingleMyBells · 16/12/2013 13:18

Along similar lines. When I was with ex husband, if we had an argument, he would think nothing pf storming off and disappearing for hours. That would never occur to me to do that due to my sense pf responsibility towards my son. Perhaps it is similar in that more men than women feel comfortable to basically palm off their responsibilities when it gets too much.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 13:18

Did you see Mumallthetimes post to me upthread?

I got that sort of response because she assumed I was one of those RPs.

Yes, I did - because you didn't qualify your remarks - refering to all NRP rather than specfying which "all" you meant.

Shallol · 16/12/2013 13:18

Do they, jingle?

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot · 16/12/2013 13:19

Amber - I might be being daft, but you didn't actually answer my question

I asked "do RPs never block contact out of spite?" and the response was "the majority of families are not in court due to a vindictive RP".

Again, they are totally unrelated. One NRP being obstructed from having contact with their children unreasonably is wrong. It doesn't matter if there are 2 cases in court due to rubbish dads or 2 million, the NRP being obobstructed deserves support.

It's almost like you're trying to minimalise the damage done by spiteful RPs by saying "well more NRPs are crap than RPs". It isn't right and spreads the stereotypes of feckless fathers in general. (To clarify, the stereotypes of single mothers are disgusting and wrong too)

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot · 16/12/2013 13:21

Amber - what mumall said. It's probably just because it's written words on a screen and we're probably rushing to type, but it also read to me like you were tarring all fathers with the same brush. You then clarified you meant all rubbish fathers.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 13:42

Yes, I did - because you didn't qualify your remarks - refering to all NRP rather than specfying which "all" you meant

Mumallthetime, sorry, I know we cleared that up, I was just using it as an example of the assumptions that are made in my response to Brandy.

Brandy, I was conversing on the subject of Dads that paint blame on their exes and make exuses, I didn't think I needed to clarify that in saying that I didn't mean the good dads.

Amber - I might be being daft, but you didn't actually answer my question

I asked "do RPs never block contact out of spite?" and the response was "the majority of families are not in court due to a vindictive RP

No it wasn't. My response to that was;

I think that lots of adults behave in very immature and selfish ways, in all manner of situations

...and then the rest of my post.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 13:45

It's almost like you're trying to minimalise the damage done by spiteful RPs by saying "well more NRPs are crap than RPs

Yes it does look like that if you miss out my previous line of the post [which was the actual response!]

Nice try though.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 14:12

I think that lots of adults behave in very immature and selfish ways, in all manner of situations

Can you imagine the roasting if that was the repsonse given to a poster complaining/seeking advice about their DC's irresponsible Dad?

Ah, well, lots of adults behave selfishly, not just in relation to contact with their DC's.

Amber - to put you totally on the spot - do you place embittered, spiteful resident Mums who actively prevent, or fail to support contact between her DC's and their Dad in the same catagory as deadbeat, irresponsible Dads who are unreliable with regard to financial support and contact?

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 14:31

Can you imagine the roasting if that was the repsonse given to a poster complaining/seeking advice about their DC's irresponsible Dad?

But I didn't give that answer in response to someone complaining about a spiteful contact blocking RP did I? It was a reply to a hypothetical question about whether such a thing happens.

Ah, well, lots of adults behave selfishly, not just in relation to contact with their DC's

That wasn't what I was saying though. My 'in all manner of situations' means situations separation/child access related. Do I really need to spell out in fine detail what we are discussing every time I post? I thought it would be understood that I'm not talking about whether or not a person drops wet towels on the floor or farts at the table. This thread is about residency/contact. Feel free to assume that that is what I am talking about.

Amber - to put you totally on the spot - do you place embittered, spiteful resident Mums who actively prevent, or fail to support contact between her DC's and their Dad in the same catagory as deadbeat, irresponsible Dads who are unreliable with regard to financial support and contact?

Of course, who wouldn't?

As I said...I think that lots of adults behave in very immature and selfish ways, in all manner of situations. Stats do prove however, that one of the above 'groups' is much more common than the other, but yes, they both exist.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 15:00

Stats do prove however, that one of the above 'groups' is much more common than the other, but yes, they both exist.

Do you have statistics about the number of Dads who are prevented from having meaningful contact with their DC's?
I've been trawling the web for months and can't find anything - there are a few reports relating to specific US States, but nothing relating to the UK or Europe.
Even the "Fathers Rights" groups in various countries seem to be using guesswork. Scandalous headlines "1 million children growing up without a father" are being used to support both causes; yet I don't think there is a definitive answer to either question.

Certainly, both are far more common than should be socially acceptable - but whether one is more common than the other entirely depends on your online/RL social circles, I think!

ElenorRigby · 16/12/2013 15:02

I dont think you can fight biology really. Women are biologically kitted out for raising children men are much less so. (Of course there are crap mothers though)

As a mother if you ask yourself in an absolute emergency who would you save your DH/P or your children, I reckon it be v rare for a mother to save the husband before the kids.

My BIL has always been great with kids and desperately wanted them to the point of being depressed when they could not conceive naturally or via IVF. They have now adopted a little boy and guess what, BIL isnt as good with children as he/we thought he would be!

My dads a great dad, grandfather, uncle etc yet to my knowledge he never once changed a nappy!

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 15:07

I dont think you can fight biology really. Women are biologically kitted out for raising children men are much less so.

Oops, excuse me

I came back to this thread and seem to have inadvertantly stumbled into the 1950's.

ElenorRigby · 16/12/2013 15:10

Yeah well as others have said see what happens if you ever split up

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 15:19

Yeah well as others have said see what happens if you ever split up

LOL - not bothered to read the thread, I see!

We've been split for 5 years; he and I share 50:50 care of DD, and he is arguably a better parent than I am!

OneMoreChap · 16/12/2013 15:57

Expectation is key reason I imagine.

I would have loved to have had the kids, or even had decent access.

Oh, and I did 50% of the childcare, and paid far more than 50% out of my wage which was about the same as hers.

Still, the past is a different country and I hoped things were getting better now.

ElenorRigby · 16/12/2013 16:04

There's 370 posts, Im not gonna read every bloomin one.

Anyway if hes sooo great why arnt you still with him!

Golddigger · 16/12/2013 16:11

I still cant help thinking that the op has started this for the reason that she is thinking to part from her partner.
And really wants for him to be the resident parent.

MumallTheTime · 16/12/2013 16:18

Anyway if hes sooo great why arnt you still with him!

Another 1950's flashback - no matter how unhappy a woman is in a marriage, if her DH is a great Dad, then she should stay.

I expect a great deal more from my DH than being a great Dad (although that is a non-negotiable) - some of the best Dads I know are lousy husbands!

ElenorRigby · 16/12/2013 16:19

Does he have a new partner?

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