to wonder why men are almost always the non-resident parent

[womblesofwestminster]

Yes, I know I could win an award for most clueless person, but please humour me.

Why is it that when parents separate, it's almost always the mother that the children live with and who has to do the bulk of the mundane parts of the childcare? While daddy gets to pay a cash sum each week, pursue his own interests most of the time and then be Disney the rest of the time.

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

My DP and his exW had a 50:50 split that has morphed over time into residency with DP and me. So I suppose our family bucks the trend.

In our case it is a case of the children preferring one home over the other. DSS2 said to us very recently when leaving for a day at his mother's house: "I must go to zoo now."

to the zoo

Mumallthetime, that link you have put up shows the court did order contact but the mother refused to comply, I was told quite clearly if I did not adhere to contact I could end up in prison.

That's one news article, there aren't many news articles about the crap NRP's.

I was told quite clearly if I did not adhere to contact I could end up in prison.

Has it ever happened, though?

Has a RP who blocks contact ever ACTUALLY been sent to prison? Or is it a threat that scares most RP into compliance, with no actually legal basis? Does anyone know of anyone? Has a case ever come to the attention of the media?

Given that the RP has the right to refuse contact if they have reasonable excuse even if an Order has been issued, I'm surprised any "non-compliance" cases are ever successful - how hard can it be for a RP to argue that they had a good reason for not allowing contact to take place?

I was told quite clearly if I did not adhere to contact I could end up in prison.

It's an empty threat. I've never heard of a case where a PWC has actually spent time in prison for withholding contact. Despite the legal threats PWCs can often get away with withholding or otherwise frustrating contact with no comeback on them whatsoever.

If a PWC repeatedly ignores court-ordered contact then, very rarely, the court will order that the PWC loses residency. That's the biggest realistic threat but it really is not common. Not least because it takes years and many court appearances to get to that point by which time many children will be too old for a contact order to have any meaning anyway. It's a risky strategy for the NRP too - a court is just as likely to reduce contact in such situations in an attempt to minimise the conflict.

I don't know about prison but I have heard of the odd case whether the NRP has been given residency. It's very rare though because the court has to prove that the benefits of making that kind of decision outweigh the negative effects of removing a child from its home.

It's a risky strategy for the NRP too - a court is just as likely to reduce contact in such situations in an attempt to minimise the conflict.

Which is exactly what happened in the ongoing case I linked to - 82 court orders and the last Court Application resulted in an order for "no contact" between the DC and her Dad - hence the appeal court hearing. This is a battle he has been fighting for 12 years. Nothing is changing.

I will confess when I hear women in a new relationship say he wants to see his kids but she won't let him I tend to think give it a few years and you may find out why.

This. Sometimes it's true. I do know that. But one of the most valuable things you can do is to listen to what your prospective boyfriend/girlfriend says about their ex and read between the lines.

For example, the thing in my experience that differentiates people who were really a victim and those who take no responsibility for being an abusive arse is that the latter's story is short on facts, but long on invective and "poor me, s/he just wants to hurt me". It's difficult to describe in words, really but IRL I've got it down.

I adhered to the contact order regardless of the suffering it caused my children due to the threat of prison/losing residency.

Interestingly ex has never ever contested residency and he only applied for contact when the CSA caught up with him (after he initially convinced them to close the case suggesting we had a private arrangement-which we did not).

I wonder exactly how many NRP actually fight for residency.

I'll tell you what happens to ignoring court ordered contact nothing. Nothing at all. Legalised kidnapping.

jessie I agree.

It's also worth observing inconsistancies in the ex's behaviour - for instance, in the case currently in the media, the claims made by the mother of emotional/physical abuse are undermined by the fact that on several occasions, she has willingly placed her DD in her ex's care. If she genuinely feared for the safety/welfare of her DD, then she wouldn't allow her anywhere near her Dad regardless of her DD's opinion.

This is the situation my DH is currently facing - a few months ago, his DS Mum refused contact because DS was frightened/bullied by DH (to the point where she believed that removing DH's PR was the best thing for DS), yet a matter of weeks later, with no subsequent intervention or explaination, she was insisting that DS spend three consecutive o/n stays with DH.

I would want to be resident parent if I split with dh. 50/50 would be ok but I'd prefer most of the care.

Most of the posts on here where mums complain is where the Dad is messing her about ans not doing his part of arrangement.

I wonder exactly how many NRP actually fight for residency.

Fuzzy As I said downthread, many NRP are disuaded from applying for residency by Solicitors - in particular in my experience, Solicitors who are members of Resolution.

For example - my DH has had three different solicitors involved in his case at different times - the first advised him to "accept whatever scraps of contact his ex threw at him", the second was incredibly adversarial and proposed a strategy to discredit his ex and not only limit her contact with her DC's but also destroy her career in the process (he wasn't a member of Resolution, btw!), and the third advised him that the "best" he could hope for was a shared residency order and that is what he applied for in order to "appear reasonable" - which CAFCASS eventually advised against due to the conflict between parents.
And, DH had been an equal/primary carer of both DC's throughout their lives up to that point, so that was not a consideration.

Since being open about the situation, many Dads have told DH the same thing - that they wanted to fight for their DC's but their solicitor advised against it. And to be honest, when you read the horror stories, I can undertand why.

DH s story is a nightmare it's to outing but he was advised by his solicitor not to apply for residency or 50/50 from the start.

many NRP are disuaded from applying for residency by Solicitors - in particular in my experience, Solicitors who are members of Resolution.

Even Families Need Fathers suggest leaving court action as an absolute last resort. The reasoning is that once it hits the courts it all too often becomes a battle that can only be won or lost and so the focus shifts to fighting the other parent rather than concentrating on what's genuinely best for the children.

I always find it awkward when the new partner talks about why the NRP and RP broke up and the blame is always solidly on the RP and how awful she was. I mean, the post above, how dare the woman want to share childcare with the father of her children when he's been at work all day. The lazy mare! Doesn't she know that she was meant to be the child skivvy permanently because he was big man money earner? As for expecting some time to enjoy weekends and holidays, silly woman. She should have been earning her right to be a sahm tut tut!

It's just so... convenient. What man is really going to tell his new partner the truth if it paints him in a bad light? I wonder how many of our exes tell their new partners about their big bad unhinged ex partners who won't let them see the children even though they did eveeeeeerything before the split.

I'm sure there are some horrid women but most of the time, I read posts bleating about how good a dad the NRP was before they split and think, how do you know? Were you there?

And I always wonder how much influence the new partner has had on the NRP applying for contact. Got to look good for the new partner and abandoning children doesn't fit the image.

I always find it awkward when the new partner talks about why the NRP and RP broke up and the blame is always solidly on the RP and how awful she was

Well, sometimes they ARE awful - unless you are advocating double standards when Mum has an OM, compared to Dad having an OW?

It's also worth observing inconsistancies in the ex's behaviour - for instance, in the case currently in the media, the claims made by the mother of emotional/physical abuse are undermined by the fact that on several occasions, she has willingly placed her DD in her ex's care. If she genuinely feared for the safety/welfare of her DD, then she wouldn't allow her anywhere near her Dad regardless of her DD's opinion

I'm not commenting on the case, because I don't know anything about it, but I will say that I have been guilty of this inconsistency. The problem is that abuse can be cyclical, and there can be times when the relationship between father and child is going well, and times when it is much more troubled. And I agonise over whether and how much to take advantage of the positive times so that dd at least gets to have some positive memories of her father. Most people aren't one-note monsters - they have some good and some bad. Can I let my dd have some access to the good while trying to protect her against the bad? It's an agonisingly difficult line to draw.

Howard - court may be a last resort but when solicitors are used to negotiate contact arrangements prior to any court hearings, fathers are still told NOT to bother trying to argue for 50/50 contact. Every other weekend is the norm and that is what solicitors advise too. They actively discourage fathers from applying for more and many mothers know that every other weekend has been the norm for years and so are reluctant to agree anymore.

Mumallthetime
ah, you have got it very wrong im afraid.

im not labelling all men as irresponsible etc. I was talking specifically about those that bemoan their lack of contact with their children. typically going on to say what a bitch their children's mum is and that it is all her fault.

that is what I am instantly sceptical of.

'women who think like you'...etc how do I think?

I have a reasonably good relationship with my ex. he has regular overnight contact with our children. I think he could probably do more with them, but he also has a fairly young younger child. he isn't a bad Dad.

I know plenty of good Dads, some still married, some separated. Some single Dads. my own Dad was/is brilliant even after my parents split.

The person I mentioned up thread that has majority residence of his child...that is my DP.

I am not a 'manhater' nor would anyone who knows me ever call me that.

I just happen to know lots of people whose experience is not positive. It is always the same story. irresponsible dads seem to have a script and plenty of willing wars to listen.

Buffy excellent post.

amber apologies - your use of the phrase ...every time.... led me to conclude that you do not consider each case on their merits.