To stop contact between dd and her not so darling dad?

[MincedMuffPies]

ExFw was emotionally, physically and financially abusive towards me so I'm not sure if I'm being objective enough.

DD(8) doesn't want to go to his eow saturday night anymore. She comes home complaining of being shouted at nagged and used as a babysitter to keep her younger sister (4) entertained.

FW gas lights her, promises her the world and never follows through unless it suits him. He has never once put her (or any of his dc) first. He has never gone to a school play, choir performance, school assembly, sports day or gymnastic competition. Even when he wasn't working.

I can mention so many examples of hurtful things he has said while she is in hearing range. One example being to me, dd is my funny little princess but dd's sister she is my queen shes so amazing just look at her.

Dd hasn't just complained at going to her dads to me she has also said to my dm and dnan that she doesn't like going as her dad is so bossy and boring.

He hasn't paid child support since January, this week I have spoken to child maintenance. I have always said my child is not a pay per view channel but jheeze I am fed up. He is supposed to pay for her music lessons at school, a poxy £15 PM, he promised her that he would pay this he told me he would put the money in my account every month but he hasn't. He has just bought himself a new car so now he has two cars.

She does want to see her family on his side, her grandma who shes not that close with and her bag of brothers who she adores. She does want to see her dad but she doesn't want to sleep over or go to his house. She says it's because she misses me but my dd is used to having sleepovers with various friends and family. My DM takes her on holidays and my Dnan has her the majority of most school holidays so she is used to spending time without me so I don't really think it's about missing me.

I have done everything I can to make her dad love her. I even took him in when he got evicted and got back together with him for a year thinking if he spent enough time with her they would bond more. I have really gone above and beyond what I needed to do.

If you have got this far thanks, now IABU to think fuck you, you had your chance to build a strong relationship my dd doesn't need you around and instead of making her go do what I have been doing this last month and making our weekends jam packed with things to do and people to see so she doesn't miss seeing him or want to see him regularly again. I think it will be more damaging long term forcing her to go and see him then letting her stop.

I think in this case the details are the facts... This was the only information to give people that could allow them to give a fully informed opinion. Anyway, doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

You need to report the violence. Phone the police and ask to speak to the same officer that came to your home. Explain that you were too scared to report violence in front of your ex but ask for it to be added to the incident number.

I think stopping contact is less damaging for your DD than seeing her father be violent and abusive against her mother.

Welsh is correct support services will not pressure you or want you to do anything, they will support you.

Lively. None molistation orders are great they are a fantastic tool to support someone where abuse is an issue.

But they are not easy to obtain anywhere in England Scotland or Wales. They tend to be seen as very draconian orders so the abusive behaviour threshold in a judges head tends to be quite high especially if you have the violent person sat in court saying she's making it up. That's not to say people don't get them or even that they are not issued regularly because they are,just that obtaining them is certainly not a slam dunk just because you've asked often people walk out of court with nothing but an undertaking ( a promise not to be violent but with very limited legal sanctions and no order to arrest)

I've got a life time none mol and it works very very well for me, but despite being (in the area I applied and the court that heard my case) very very well known in domestic violence circles as a DV resourse given that a huge part of my job is to give expert evidence in DV cases it was still not easy to obtain.it took me 3 years to get it changed from time limited to life time.

To some offenders its nothing but a piece of paper. A woman is so much more likely to be seriously injured or killed either at the time of leaving the relationship or in the first year after leaving than at any other time that you would think protection would be simple and guarenteed but for many its not.

The dd may very well want to see him,but if she is not protected from abuse or witnessing abuse then this will not be in her best interests.

Yep, there's no reason for you to be moved into refuge as you are already living separately from him. So actually what you need support with is the handovers, preventing him from abusing you in your home and, potentially, DD's safety when she is with him. They can offer support with all of this and hopefully make your home feel like more of a safe haven.

ALL abusers make up lies about their victims and try to turn it around - don't think that the police/SS etc will automatically believe him - they have seen his type before.

Could your mum/nan facilitate handovers?

Sockreturningpixie what you are describing is vastly different from my own experience.

I am aware that contact where DD is not protected from abuse or witnessing abuse is not in her best interest but thus far from what I can gather she has not been physically abused and from what I can gather she has actually only seen any form of violence once (not that this makes it better) but is it enough to pull contact without the possibility of severe repercussions? I don't think so. I hate the say it but it is hugely unlikely from what I know that a court would agree to no contact what so ever if her ex partner was to seek visitation through legal channels. OP may find herself in a position where she is having to hand over more responsibility to a man whom she does not trust.

I have suggested mediation, possibility of looking into contact centre or some form of supervised contact, supervised handovers etc.

I can't see why OP would be against these options? I am by no means against the OP but the reality of this world is that a parent cannot just stop all contact and not expect to have any fall back... There are legal channels and bodies in place to aid in these situations.

OP - Would you consider the above options? Have you taken any form of formal advice on this matter? Have you reported the abuse to anyone? Why involve police to remove your ex from your home but not when violence occurred? I really am not meaning to be harsh but I honestly think the way you are wanting to deal with this, by pulling contact, not allowing phone contact is going to cause you a lot more problems in the long run.

OP, why do you think you would have to go into a refuge? Social services would not ask or expect that if you are separated and they feel you can keep the children safe with community resources such as the police.
He's absolutely still abusing you as you well know and you can't just hope he will give up. You need help. I think that talking to social services yourself would be a good course of action. Pre-empt him being manipulative and showing them his charming side. State your concerns around contact and ask for support and advice to keep them safe. Follow their guidance. They are not monsters, they will not force you to do anything.

If he doesn't live with you he has no right of access to your home at all. If he has a key, change the locks immediately. Inform him via email that you will only communicate with him via emal regarding contact time with DD (perhaps agree a time when she can phone him if she wants to) and that you will not spend any social time with him. DD is old enough to understand the explanation that while it's fine for her to see her dad, he is horrible to YOU and therefore you won't be seeing him or spending time with him.

Are you seriously saying you have been to court for Scotland's version of a none mol and not had a judge treat it like its a serious order?

Or that in your area some people don't ignore them?

Or that they are really easy to obtain?

Scottish woman's aid would disagree with you.

The risk is that the ex will go to court he could do that anyway, a court can order contact centre and can take into account that she's smack bang in the middle of the most dangerous time for her.

Every time he pushes her every time he touches her without her consent is another assault in front of his child.

Mediation is not recamended when DV is or has been an issue.

But yes I would advocate getting professional legal advice stopping contact is never a move to be taken lightly but sometimes its needed even if on a temp basis to safeguard all involved and the courts do understand this.

Pretty much every request for a contact order that comes before the courts is because parents either can't agree or one has stopped contact. Courts are quite used to it.if you come across as a lying spite filled person then yes your likely to have problems or sanctions applied to you but if your honest most people will be ok and get the help there children need.

I just feel as its such a mess ss will come in and turn things around and that will be someone else again to have to prove my parenting to.

Me and the dc a few years ago ended up in a refuge down to a different dv situation and it was shit. I had again in similar circumstances split up with a boyfriend who had turned violent and the police and women's aid said if I do not move into the refuge ss will have to be involved. So me and the dc ended up in such a fucking awful place where the manager was almost like an abuser herself and would do things like unlock my bedroom door and barge in. When I complained they said they were allowed to do this if they were concerned about anything.They then evicted me as my friend dropped me back there to close to the refuge. This was about 3 years ago and I'm not having my dc move schools and house again. I ended up moving back to my flat without being rehoused and I'm not putting my dc through that again.

I am terrified of ss being involved I am a care leaver myself and I cannot take a risk involving them that my dc won't end up as I did.

The mediation suggestion will not work, he will just use that to get me to agree to more shit I don't want to do.

Pick ups from family will not work as they're not close enough. I have asked him to pick up from school or child minders have her for dinner or overnight on a weekday but he didn't want that. He doesn't see the point in midweek contact when he doesn't have any of his other dc.

I have spoke to dd and she has said she wants to see him once or twice a month on Sundays with no overnights. I will email him this and see if we can do eo Sunday's with me dropping her off and picking her up from the cafe down the road between our homes. I don't really want her to go but will let her lead as to when and how much is ok with her.

In my email I will lay out boundaries and explain if he continues to be such a dick I will be stopping contact again.

LivelySoul, I strongly advise that you pipe down. You have no idea what you're talking about (referring to American terms and orders that don't exist in England for starters).

OP and other women in abusive situations may be afraid to take the appropriate legal steps to protect themselves and their children if they listened to most of the rubbish you are spouting.

OP, please don't be afraid of any potential SS referrals. It very rarely happens automatically and in spite of all the scaremongering that goes on here, they are there to work with you not against you.

I have never heard of SS forcing somebody to move to a shelter and all that beeswax, even if your ex was living with you (if that was the case I guess they may push for an occupation order if you're in England, but I'm not a solicitor).

You might want to get this thread moved to legal or maybe relationships where you'll get more practical and accurate advice rather than the AIBU lets-pretend-we're-all-solicitors bunch.

Sorry, just fully read your post about being co-erced into moving. That's truly awful, but still please try not to worry about SS. I can only guess why they would do this, and I'm not going to speculate in your thread.

As I said, your ex is not resident with you.

It wasn't ss it was women's aid look. They said when I rang up for advice and because the police told me ring them and I moved the next day.

I cannot trust women's aid again I really can't. They did not treat me and my dc fairly or decent. This is now the past but I'm not laying myself vulnerable to them again. If anything has ever damaged my dc emotionally it was this.

I feel a lot of the time contact with dd and her dad is not good for her but it's so hard as she does love him es her dad, I know fw wouldn't bother to take me to court now there's no legal aid so I'm not to worried about that. I'm just trying to find a way to make this situation work best for dd, that's why I posted in AIBU to get a round picture if I am BU.

Children's services may very well get involved but that involvement could be as little as a phone call to see if you need any support.

I've worked in CP and DV services for decades and the only times I have ever come across heavy intervention was when the children had been physically harmed or a very high chance (usually the mum saying so) that she was returning to her abuser. Obviously that's if other issues like drugs were not involved.

I understand exactly why you are frightened, I really do but seriously social workers are your friend when you are a good parent doing an ok job.

It would be highly unlikely for anyone to ask you to move as the current school of thought is that remaining in area where you have a home and a friendship/ family network whilst using legal protection orders (if needed)long term is the safest option for the vast majority of people in your situation.

Obviously we use refuges in different areas but that's not just to protect one person its to protect everyone there, remaining in your stable permanent home is different, people talk about fleeing to the other side of the uk but mostly its a very low % who really need to do this for safety reasons lots choose to for peace of mind but they don't risk being killed if they don't.

I also understand why as a care leaver your more concerned but try and remember that whilst yes a care leaver is more likely to have children removed its still a very small amount (wen taken in context of how many parents there are) that do have that happen.

Not once ever have I ever known someone who did not reside with the ex with no return risk,who took all reasonable steps to protect themselves and the dc,actively sought help,made there home safe and had a crisis plan ever even be threatened with removal.

Chances are your ex knows your views about help seeking,I would be gob smacked if he didn't and he's relying on it. The longer you let him get away with it the more stable his position is.

Did you know you can phone rights of women www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/

They are qualified legal people who are free.

Also comunity legal advice (can't link to that my iPad wont go to the page)

If you have disclosed at all to any professional like a dr in the last two years then legal aid can help with seeing a legal bod face to face. Legal aid has changed so your ex won't get it but you may.

With proper legal advice,honesty and asking for help you will get it.

Don't be put off by what I said about legal orders yes judges do take them very seriously but that's for a very very good reason. Its to make sure the people who need them get them,if they handed them out like smarties nobody would pay attention to them,

And these days the police are very good not a day goes by when I don't hear a client commend the police.

I used the term restraining order as alot of people don't know what an interim interdict is. I explained this in a previous post.

I won't pipe down by your demand. She posted and everyone has a right to respond and I have with all I had to stay. Including an apology for assuming certain things prior to her explaining the full situation.

I have been involved in obtaining and II before yes and it was not as difficult as what you were describing, neither did it take me 3 years for an extended order. Laws may have changed but this is my personal experience. As for your other comments I didn't actually say any of them just that my experience was different from what you described.

If I end up in a position where I have to ring the police again ss will get involved so I will cross that bridge I and when I get to it. I really cannot ring them myself, I have so many examples of being let down by my shitty sw I had as a teenager to ever be comfortable with bringing them in my life to judge but I'm not risking my dc being took off me.

I will look at the links thank you for taking the time for all the advice you have gave me socks.

I still have no idea what's best to do for my dd and there's still loads more issues that would just make me sound unbelievable to post.

Think we will try eo Sunday for a few hours of she wants to go but I'm not happy with him ringing me at all. Whether its to ask to speak to dd or moan at me I just dont want the hassle of speaking to him or him breaking into my day/evening with another phone call. Whether that's fair or not I couldn't give a shit now I just want him away from me and dc.

And furthermore I have encouraged Op to go through legal channels. I am fully supportive of women/men/children getting out of and away room DV situations but by way of using legal channels not taking law upon yourself as I have said this could result in Op being in a worse position which I wouldn't wish on anyone.

it was not me who told you to pipe down.

Even if I agree with the poster who did.

And read what I wrote lifetime order not extended, an extended order is not uncommon a lifetime order is very uncommon.

Where no contact or other court orders exist you would not be taking the law into your own hands by stopping contact, where there is a valid welfare concern, and yes a parent being abused at hand over is a valid concern it could be very damaging to continue to send them.

You may want to notch down the hostility

Op... You were in a refuge 3 years ago? Who put you there? Your dd is 8...... You split with her dad in July? Doesn't make sense

Red why don't you actually read what I have wrote before you keep trying to poke holes in. I am not explaining myself to you if you had read my OP properly in the first place you would have the answers to your pokes.

I really am not being hostile. If it's coming across that way I apologise. I know it wasn't you that said it, the first and second part of my post was a reply to someone else.

I would genuinely not wish what OP is going through on anyone, but I do think she needs to be especially careful in how she handles it.

I think your DD will already be picking up on your tension, fear and apprehension and will probably be on her best behaviour when with him incase he kicks off I can fully see your point and you are the only person that can protect your DD

Can I ask how he treats the mothers of his other children? as its almost like he knows he can terrify you and enjoys the power, you really needd to take that back even if it means always chaving a witness and whether a court order is in place as for the gas lighting maybe get a court order in place with what he is expected to pay for ie the music lessons and

Red,

The op and him broke up, he was going through a tough time soto help him out she let him stay (some time after) but they then ended up back together

Madbengal, every significant relationship their has been violence problems. I can't believe I used to believe him none of this was true.

He was never aggressive to me until I let him move in temporarily. After a couple of I really don't want to talk about incidents I kicked him out and after that it's got worse and worse.

It's as if he can't believe you stood upto him and he is after revenge against you or the power he thought he would have moving in!

I would strongly advise never being alone with him and if you can't have some-one with you then arrange the drop off and pick up at a local shop etc so you have witnesses.

In all honesty though unless your in this situation its all very good saying keep the contact, thats what woman's aid/SS is for etc

I've been there and there is no correct way of coping you just do and you are, follow your gut protect yourself and DD but I would be completely honest with your DD to your reasons as he will twist everything if he follows form of what you have put