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Original poster

or is my work? really need some sensible advice here

275 replies

commutingnightmares · 13/12/2013 15:56

Have name changed for this as its sensitive.

Feel free to tell me if I'm being entitled but its really starting to stress me out and make me depressed and I need some advice about whether I have any rights or whether I just need a good talking to.

I'm a few months into a new job. Generally OK, colleagues are nice, work is interesting though the pay is worse than I was on before (long story). By and large everything is OK apart from one thing.

As part of my work I'm required to do a job from home very early in the morning (from just after 5am) which takes anything from an hour 15 mins to nearly 2 hours. I took this on readily and the quid pro quo is that I get to start an hour later than my colleagues, which suits me as it helps with my childcare drop off.

After I finish this shift I then have to get my daughter up, get her ready, get myself ready and get a bus and a train to drop her off at childcare before getting to my desk. I made clear before starting that the drop-off was non-negotiable -- my DH can't do the morning drop-off. This was accepted when I took the job.

Due to transport problems I sometimes get in a few minutes after my official start time. This varies but it works out on average that I'm about 5 minutes late most days, sometimes on time, sometimes more, but never very late.

My boss is now saying that I need to get in earlier and that I have to be in by the start time or else, ideally even earlier. I've pointed out to him that due to the fact that the lateness is always accounted for by transport problems, I can't do anything about this (my train network is really rubbish and services rarely run to time). I can't get an earlier train and still get the job done in good time and then attend to all the things I need to do to get my daughter ready, its simply not possible (I've tried).

The morning job is really really stressful for me, my daughter always wakes up in the middle of it and usually gets distressed and upset that I'm working.

I've offered to drop the morning job in order to get in earlier. Boss still isn't happy. Basically the key bone of contention seems to be that I have to be in exactly at the start time on the dot or else. If I'm even a couple of minutes late this seems to be a major problem for them, even though there are other people around and its not clear to me that it makes a massive difference, its usually pretty quiet at that time of day.

I could potentially move my daughter to another childcare provider closer to my home but this would only make a marginal difference to the commute and would be quite a wrench for her as she is settled where she is so I don't want to do this unless I really have to.

To my knowledge there aren't any other issues with my work, or at least none that I've been made aware of.

This is massively impacting my quality of life upsetting my DH and my daughter and constantly in trouble at work, I feel I can't win. I'm busting a gut every morning to get everything done on time and still seem incapable of pleasing anyone. A couple of friends one of whom is a lawyer -- have said they think the boss may be on shaky ground in terms of equal ops and should watch it. I don't want to get into anything ugly, but I can't help feeling that I'm being put under pressure that's verging on being unreasonable.

Can anyone give any advice?

OP posts:
Original poster
commutingnightmares · 14/12/2013 10:25

another more senior member of the team, who still does it from time to time if I'm not able to and she was able to do it from work and still does as she has grown-up children. It may be that she was doing it quicker but she's been there donkeys' years.

OP posts:
Jinsei · 14/12/2013 10:27

OK, so could you ask her how long it takes? If she says 45 minutes, then your boss has a point. Could she train you to do it more quickly?

Jinsei · 14/12/2013 10:29

Does she come into work at 5am on the days that she does this job? And does she then stay till 5pm? Confused

Original poster
commutingnightmares · 14/12/2013 10:33

No. She was coming in at about 7.30 and staying until about 5, 5.30.

OP posts:
whereiseveryone · 14/12/2013 10:38

I'm sorry but I'd say your boss is treating you like a doormat.

I would tell him that the only way to solve the problem of getting into work late is to drop the morning job and revert to your contracted hours of 10am to 4pm (or whatever they are). I would then get in at 9.55am and leave at 4.05pm not a minute later...

In the meantime, I would be looking for another job. You will never win with a manager like that so better off out of it. Life is too short.

Jinsei · 14/12/2013 10:41

OK, so the job doesn't actually have to be done at 5am, just before 9am?

I think you need to get this woman on side. She know the work and what is involved. Could she talk to your boss and tell him how long it takes, or could she train you to do it more quickly?

BIWI · 14/12/2013 10:43

Where is your husband in all of this? Is he totally unable to help at all?

I would also be alarmed if a job I think should take 45 minutes is taking someone up to 2 hours to do. Why does it take you so long? It sounds to me like you should set a point by which you have to finish, so that you can catch the earlier train, so that you can be in on time.

Yes, it sounds petty saying that you have to be there at a specific time, especially if you're used to working in a different kind of environment, but if that's what they want/is part of the job then you have to make sure you are doing what they have asked you for.

I would be irritated to see you arriving for work late every day - doesn't matter if it's only 5 minutes (and it sounds like it's often more than 5 minutes) - either as your boss or a fellow employee.

Thatballwasin · 14/12/2013 10:45

OP, do you get a hour back to start work later every morning in lieu of time already worked but the job takes between fifteen and 60 minutes more than that to get done every day? Are you working between an extra 75 to 300 minutes every week without pay? If so, they are being massively unreasonable. You need to have a chat with them about the time you have already worked in the morning.

Jinsei · 14/12/2013 10:45

I would tell him that the only way to solve the problem of getting into work late is to drop the morning job and revert to your contracted hours of 10am to 4pm (or whatever they are). I would then get in at 9.55am and leave at 4.05pm not a minute later...

But the OP is contracted to do the equivalent of a 9-5 day. Her boss thinks the morning job should take 45 minutes, and he allows her to come in an hour later in exchange for doing this, so in his mind, the OP isn't doing any extra hours anyway.

You need to establish a shared understanding of how long the morning task should take, and then negotiate from there.

whereiseveryone · 14/12/2013 10:55

Well, revert to 9 to 5 then.

Sorry, but this all sounds a bit petty.

I had a boss whinge at me about being five minutes late. He somehow seemed to ignore the fact I was working through lunch and staying late. In some ways, you cannot please some people but I think it is often a case of having a face that doesn't fit.

Original poster
commutingnightmares · 14/12/2013 10:56

I can't leave the job until its done, IYSWIM. Its not something I can just do by the clock and shut off if I go over my set hours. Its not only a question of pay, if it doesn't get done several hundred people are inconvenienced and my boss will get lots of grief. The priority is to get the job done in good time and good quality and I can handle that. What I can't always handle is doing that and handling the commute and the childcare dropoff and then getting into the office by a set time.
But as the set start time is a) arbitrary and b) doesn't make much difference to anyone other than that people are looking at the clock and noticing that I'm five minutes late, my view is that getting the early job done should be the priority.
If I could get in every day by the set start time I would, believe me. But I can't do all of those things.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 14/12/2013 11:05

If a task management think take @45min take you up to 2hr task needs looked at
There's a clear mismatch going on here,in task and time it consumes.and you're saying it's the morning task making you late
You've not elaborated on your dh what's his routine in morning?

Original poster
commutingnightmares · 14/12/2013 11:22

My DH has to be out of the house by 06.15.

OP posts:
Thatballwasin · 14/12/2013 11:31

Can you get a CM nearby and drop off your DD at 8am?

scottishmummy · 14/12/2013 12:11

The task is the issue.work think its a 45min completion.its taking you 2hr
The task and it's components need reviewed,is it a fair task?
Attitudinally you also need to accept work can legitimately impose a start time. You say you've been used to places were one arrived,and that was that.

I can't see what the basis for shaky ground or equal ops is I'm afraid
You all need to review the task and why it's so time consuming -is it too onerous, is there a training issue
If you want to arrive later than start time you negotiate and get a formal fwa

Jinsei · 14/12/2013 12:43

OP, you still haven't said why you don't take a lunchbreak. Don't you eat a lunchtime? Confused

Regardless, I agree with SM that it's the morning task which is the issue here, as that's what is shaping your boss's expectations.

As a manager myself, I'd be really concerned if an employee was taking two hours to complete something that I thought could be done in 45 minutes, and I'd want to know what was going on. My first question would be to check whether my own expectations were realistic, so I'd try it myself or check with someone else who had done the task before - perhaps he has already spoken to the woman who did it previously? If I was confident after checking that my expectations were reasonable, I'd then be wondering if it was a training need, a capability issue or whether the employee was just taking the piss.

scottishmummy · 14/12/2013 12:51

Your time management is poor if you habitually don't take lunch op
The issue here is the task,and what's an appropriate time for its completion
You must meet with employer discuss task.It may be training issue,it maybe capability issue.

trixymalixy · 14/12/2013 12:53

OP you say that on average you are 5 minutes late every day, so some days it's a lot more?

I agree with you that it's a bit petty of your boss to pull you up on being 5 mins late, but it's clearly more than that some days. Whatever, your boss wants you in on time, so this can't continue otherwise you'll probably end up being disciplined.

What do you do in the 3 hours between 7 and 10? How long is your train journey?

Corygal · 14/12/2013 12:57

I had a boss like this - ignoring the fact I worked late, indeed had done overnighters for her unpaid, she wrote me a letter about being late back from lunch. Once.

Yes, they were trying to get rid of staff because they couldn't pay their bills.

scottishmummy · 14/12/2013 12:58

It's wholly legitimate for a manager to address habitual late attendance,
irrespective of whether 5min or not.reoccurence indicates op hasn't addressed it
I don't subscribe to the only 5min.no late is late and failure to address is an issue

scottishmummy · 14/12/2013 13:14

I see it's new post,a few months in.are you on any sort of probation period?
Does your managers have to sign off any competencies etc as satisfactory

Ephiny · 14/12/2013 13:32

Yes the main problem is clearly the mismatch between how long your boss thinks the 5am task should take and how long it's actually taking you in practice (for whatever reason - it's impossible for us to say whether it's boss having unrealistic expectations or you being inefficient or something else). Either way, sorting that out should be your first priority. You can't just carry on like this being late all the time.

It's a shame they can't be a bit more flexible about start times, assuming there isn't a practical reason you need to be there for 9 or 10 am exactly. But if that's how your workplace operates, and if your colleagues have to abide by those rules too, then there's not much you can do except suck it up, or find another job.

Original poster
commutingnightmares · 14/12/2013 13:36

I eat lunch but I don't "take lunch". Never have in my entire career. Nothing to do with "poor time management", I don't have time.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 14/12/2013 13:38

There no suck it up,a start time is a start time.its legitimate to expect start on time
The nub of this is the task,and potential mismatch of time taken to complete
Globally though,vast majority jobs will expect adhere to start time.unlikely to say och only late a wee bit every day

scottishmummy · 14/12/2013 13:40

Poor time management is not having time to eat lunch.you say you don't have time?
You clearly have poor time management