or is my work? really need some sensible advice here

[commutingnightmares]

Have name changed for this as its sensitive.

Feel free to tell me if I'm being entitled but its really starting to stress me out and make me depressed and I need some advice about whether I have any rights or whether I just need a good talking to.

I'm a few months into a new job. Generally OK, colleagues are nice, work is interesting though the pay is worse than I was on before (long story). By and large everything is OK apart from one thing.

As part of my work I'm required to do a job from home very early in the morning (from just after 5am) which takes anything from an hour 15 mins to nearly 2 hours. I took this on readily and the quid pro quo is that I get to start an hour later than my colleagues, which suits me as it helps with my childcare drop off.

After I finish this shift I then have to get my daughter up, get her ready, get myself ready and get a bus and a train to drop her off at childcare before getting to my desk. I made clear before starting that the drop-off was non-negotiable -- my DH can't do the morning drop-off. This was accepted when I took the job.

Due to transport problems I sometimes get in a few minutes after my official start time. This varies but it works out on average that I'm about 5 minutes late most days, sometimes on time, sometimes more, but never very late.

My boss is now saying that I need to get in earlier and that I have to be in by the start time or else, ideally even earlier. I've pointed out to him that due to the fact that the lateness is always accounted for by transport problems, I can't do anything about this (my train network is really rubbish and services rarely run to time). I can't get an earlier train and still get the job done in good time and then attend to all the things I need to do to get my daughter ready, its simply not possible (I've tried).

The morning job is really really stressful for me, my daughter always wakes up in the middle of it and usually gets distressed and upset that I'm working.

I've offered to drop the morning job in order to get in earlier. Boss still isn't happy. Basically the key bone of contention seems to be that I have to be in exactly at the start time on the dot or else. If I'm even a couple of minutes late this seems to be a major problem for them, even though there are other people around and its not clear to me that it makes a massive difference, its usually pretty quiet at that time of day.

I could potentially move my daughter to another childcare provider closer to my home but this would only make a marginal difference to the commute and would be quite a wrench for her as she is settled where she is so I don't want to do this unless I really have to.

To my knowledge there aren't any other issues with my work, or at least none that I've been made aware of.

This is massively impacting my quality of life upsetting my DH and my daughter and constantly in trouble at work, I feel I can't win. I'm busting a gut every morning to get everything done on time and still seem incapable of pleasing anyone. A couple of friends one of whom is a lawyer -- have said they think the boss may be on shaky ground in terms of equal ops and should watch it. I don't want to get into anything ugly, but I can't help feeling that I'm being put under pressure that's verging on being unreasonable.

Can anyone give any advice?

500internal your example is very different. By the very fact that you do the school run, your husband doesn't have to wait till 8.55 before setting off to work. And even then, his journey to work from your local/walkable school is only an hour. The OP leaves home at 7.20 and doesn't reach work till after 10. Some of this time is taken up escorting DD to childcare by bus and train which does not also take OP to work. The childcare is also chosen by her so not like school and she could get somewhere more convenient but chooses not to because it's 'only' for c18 months and not worth unsettling her daughter. She chooses to have a commute nearly three hours, which is not at all comparable to you doing the school drop off while your dh gets himself to work, presumably on time. I just don't get it. Why wouldn't she switch to a local CM. or at the very least drive to existing CM and leave car there for whoever does drop-off. There's a lot of helplessness in the face of logistics which don't seem to me to be inflexible.

Go hr by all means,they'll ask what dialogue you've had with manager
Hr won't make a direct recommendation,they expect you and manager to sort
You and manager having a dialogue is pivotal to trying for a resolution

Scottishmummy that view on the HR response is bollocks. And I think my opinion trumps because only one of us is a qualified HR director.

HR's role very clearly covers breakdowns in employee-mgr relationships and dealing with mgrs who do not appreciate work-life issues and potential staff turnover problems. If unresolved, this will end up either with the OP being fired or the mgmt relationship completely breaking down and any decent HR professional will want to get involved way before that stage.

The fact that the manager is not taking into account that school drop-off is causing the issue suggests a lack of appreciation of the need for diversity in the workforce, which sounds very large alarm bells going on the sex discrim front (do not be fooled by the argument that the mgr would treat a man the same - thats equality, not diversity, and is no longer the yardstick for measurement). This in itself isn't enough to be discrimination but could be taken into account if culturally the company was engaged in other ill-thought through practices. At the very least the mgrs approach establishes an unhealthy set of behaviours in his staff (in HR terms this is in the field of psychological contract, citizenship and engagement). A decent HR department woud want to stamp on this pettiness quickly. However consideration would also need to be taken of how much of the issue is of the OP's making (if she lives so remotely and doesn't drive then how far should a company bend? How much has company already bent over to enable her to work from home?) we don't have enough info to look into everything, but if the mgr don't weigh all of this up reasonably then HR need to be approached.

OP, please take this thread to the 'employment issues' section. It gets good traffic from lots of seriously good HR folk. Whilst lots of people here have very strong (and mostly very useful views) your problem is not so much whether YABU or not (and I'm not sure there are enough facts on here to call it because of the oddity of the situation) but what you can do to address it. Different question entirely but you need to ask that in order to get any resolution.

By the way, scottishmummy, I haven't bothered commenting before on my view re working through lunches, etc, because enough people have already responded, but you are just escalating it back with shed loads of other strong comments. It is my professional opinion, taking in all due consideration of employment law and organisational behaviour, that your experiences of the working environment appear to be very different to the norm for many industries and appear not not be relevant to the situation in hand. That's the politest I can do without risking deletion.

if it is taking you twice as long to do morning job it is
a) a competancy based issue for which you should get training and support
or b) it takes that long and you need to claim that time

i am in a salaried role but we have flexi core hours and if i work late i take my hours back and have a flexi day

in essence you are working 45 mins more than others yet being reprimanded for being 5 mins late, in my view i would be asking for my 45 mins back by leaving early or arriving late - it is on this that i think you can negotiate moving the core hour times

policy isn't law necessarily, and policy should aid good practice and company performance.

in your shoes i would tell them that you can't do morning job without the movement of core hours - get them to get someone else to do it - what happens if they can't?

To me it sounds like part of the reason the morning job is taking you so long is your dd being unsettled.

Is there anything that can be done about this? why is she waking up at 5 am with you? How does she even know you are up and doing something at that time?

I think it might be a case of speaking to work if this cannot be resolved and asking for someone else to do the morning job. If it used to take tthe previous worker 45 minutes then that is what they are going to expect from you and unfortunately saying it takes longer due to your dd sometimes isn't a valid reason to have a knock on effect of you being late.

Pink, I agree ith you that changing a cm is very different to changing a school, & it could be done to make life easier (although op did day it would only make a tiny difference).

My example isn't that different tho - I was just trying to show that some people do have 3 hours between waking up and arriving to work! If I still worked in town, I would. On the days dh has a later shift and takes the kids to school on the way, he does. It's not a problem for us, but yes, it's 3 hours between kids getting out of bed at 7 and work at 10.

I think that there is a perception problem.

The OP's employer perceives that the morning job should only take 45 minutes. The OP's employer possibly perceives that he has been generous in allowing the OP to have an hour's credit for this. Unfortunately the manager also possibly perceives that the OP is taking the piss by routinely turning up late.

The OP perceives that she is putting in more than enough hours because she is doing a job which takes 2 hours but for which she only gets one hour's credit. She is also working through lunch. The OP possibly perceives that the manager is taking the piss by demanding that the OP is minute perfect.

The OP does seem to have expectations of working practices brought in from previous roles. However the current role seems to be different. This seems to be more of a time based role. The manager wants staff to be present in the office during particular hours.

For me the key is to establish how long the morning role should be taking. I do wonder just how disrupting trying to look after DD at the same time is proving to be. I do know that when I carry out complex tasks that interruptions are hugely disruptive. It isnt just the time the interruption takes but also getting back concentration and also to check where I have got to with the task.

Good summary worry.

I'd advise the OP to look for another job. The current employer sounds petty, unreasonable and exploitative.

jigsaw I'm not paid in two separate tranches, its all part of the same pay. But your understanding of my working day is basically correct.

The reason the commute takes a long time isn't really distance though, its partly because my drop-off is out of the way (which I admit is a problem) and also just because of the idiosyncrasies of the journey.

worry you're right, it is a perception problem. I think my boss thinks I should be able to get the morning job done very early and that I'm basically spending hours faffing around with my daughter. In actual fact its a white knuckle ride every morning between finishing the job and getting her into her buggy and frequently something has to give i.e. she doesn't get breakfast or doesn't get her hair brushed.

Just seen your update commuting,

Have you got a sort of action plan down now on paper?

I'm a lover of lists! It'll make sure you've got a clear aim in mind tomorrow, and you can have a frank discussion with your boss (worry's perception post would be a good way to put it to him).

Lay out your stall and then state your proposed solution, then it is up to him to be a proper boss and take it on board and make reasonable allowances where practical.

If he is a twat, then go to HR and sort out from there.

Good luck for tomorrow, and please try to take a step back and put things back in perspective, it's rubbish that you're feeling like you are and you deserve to feel a whole lot better about yourself - things have just got a bit out of hand is all.

Good grief,you're in trouble at work cause you can't get adequate morning routine?
This is an enduring problem intrinsic to you,if you change job it'll be the same
You've alluded to a bad manager etc when you simply can't get it together

You're late because you're mornings are chaos,not a white knuckle ride,plain chaos and bad planning

There's no idiosyncrasies to your journey,there is bad planning,poor organisation that makes you late. You seem very resigned to thats the way it is?why aren't you addressing the so called idiosyncrasies if your journey

You won't change your journey,so you'll be habitually late

Ds regularly had breakfast in his buggy, otherwise we'd never have got out in time. Brush dd's hair on the bus.

OP if you haven't already Squiffy's post read it (05:40 this morning)!

Hope it works out for you.

monica yes essentially I think I need to present a couple of potential scenarios, partly to show I do actually want to resolve this and also because they are plans that I know I can achieve.

Meet with your employer,discuss the morning task,there's a mismatch in expectation of completion
Consider a fwa to adjust start times,in order that you get in
Clearly this isn't working you need to negotiate mutually agreeable resolution

Cool. Don't think about it any more today then - not worth it!

OP, I think you have had some good advice on here, especially from Squiffy. Agree something needs to give and it may well have to be the morning job, then you renegotiate your working hours based on when you can get to work following the drop off.

It's horrible having an inflexible, clock-watching employer though. What will happen when kids are ill, trains are late etc? I know it's hard in this climate but you seem very well qualified and I would start looking for something else soon if I were you.

And for all those that have criticised the OP, I for one think she deserves a medal. She gets up at 4.45am, does 2 hours work then has a stressful drop-off and long commute? That's before starting work in the office. I couldn't do it.. You must be knackered (helpful).

OP, I hope you find a solution, this all seems far too stressful for you to continue like this. Good luck.

Thanks for the frank and (generally) constructive replies all. I can see this is more complicated and controversial than I thought and depends a lot on people's cultural take on what is a priority at work.

Am feeling more positive about it today, hoping this can be sorted.

Something else to consider is the impression you create on arrival at work every day. Remember the old adage that you only get one opportunity to create a good first impression.

How do you arrive at work? Do you slip quietly into your chair and quickly get on with something? Or, do you arrive saying 'God what a journey and DD wouldnt let me brush her hair.........'

If there is even a hint of the latter then consider two things:

1. everyone else has been at work for an hour, they are well past the 'nightmare commute' conversations. If you start this again then the perception will be that you are being disruptive.

1. The impression it creates is of chaos, or someone who is disorganised, who cannot manage.

Remember this is about perception not the reality. Of course you are competent. Of course you are doing a job which is commensurate with or even a bit below your abilities. Your manager needs to see this.

I think your boss is being petty. Go to HR and suggest 10.15 start to 4.15 or whatever the hours are. I know exactly the type of environment you work in and it's most definitely not the type of environment in terms of the job you do where 5 minutes should even register - especially with the 5am start and you doing longer than stated contract hours.

I was in a similar situation once. Did my core hours but was also expected to do extra during busy times which I would do in the evenings at home - sometimes doing up to 3 hours extra for weeks on end plus weekends. I juggled this myself and made decisions based on the workload what my hours would be. Changes to the company meant a boss coming in who brought up the one time I took ten minutes extra on a lunch. I laughed at him that half the year I never took a bloody lunch and did he really want to take over the evening work by himself? Wanker. And no, it's nothing to do with time management that I had to do those extra hours.

worrysigh I am scrupulous about this. Get in and get straight to work, no fuss or self pity.

I think your boss is being petty but unfortunately this seems to often happen if you work at home for some of the time particularly if you are new to the company. Although you are actually doing doing more than your contracted hours your boss chooses to believe that you are doing less than you are contracted to do.

I would try to drop the early morning start at home so that you can get to the office on time. If he won't agree to that or a later start time in the office, it's time to involve HR and/or get another job.

It was just a thought commuting.

You havent been in this job long. It does sound like it just isnt working for you. How about looking for a new job in the new year?

I'm a few months into a new job and have realised that it just isnt going to work for me long term. I am now making sure that I get the particular experience I want from the role with the expectation that I will be moving on in 6 months or so.

Is that an option for you? Get what you need from this role but then move on quickly?

On the face of it, your boss sounds very inflexible, especially since dropping off your daughter was pre-agreed, and given that you have offered him the option of not doing the early morning work, in order to get in on time.

Presumably, when you agreed your working hours/arrangements, it was based on the task being doable in 45 minutes? Given that your boss thinks it can be done in this time, I think you should be shown how this can be achieved. If 45 minutes was achieveable, would that get round the issue of your daughter waking up whilst you were doing it?

Definitely worth finding out if there are any other issues with your work (since on its own, this sounds very petty). If you and your employer are otherwise happy with each other, there should be a way to compromise on this issue. But regardless of you sometimes being a few minutes late, it does sound like the morning work/your daughter's routine is stressful for you and needs to be simplified.

Good luck commuting. If it turns out that your very minor lateness is the only issue, and your boss is not willing to be flexible and helpful with your circumstances, then I would have reservations about working with this employer in the long-term.