To think psychics are all fakes?

[LambinsideaDuckinsideaTrout]

I don't like that they take peoples money when they are in a vulnerable place, lost loved ones etc. It's immoral. Just my opinion.

Thoughts? Opinions?

This topic and religion seem to cause the greatest anger on Mumsnet.

Possibly because science, logic and plain common sense is on our side.

They wouldn't dismiss your experience if you said you had seen a ghost but would try and find an explanation for it

They would look for evidence (if they could be bothered) find none and then dismiss it.

Hettie- you are spectacularly missing the point, although your cutting and pasting skills are exemplary. Nobody knows what gravity IS. Like nobody knows how time works. I said its effects can be measured yes. Maybe you would be better off spending your time learning some manners than trying to score points on Mumsnet?

It's not so much anger, Pax, as complete incredulity at the self-delusion some people are capable of, and how smugly they defend their indefensible positions.

Baldrick- what's that got to do with ghosts?

So do I pax

It's almost as if they are trying to convince themselves rather than anyone else.

I hold down a job, I've never been on medication, I don't drink heavily or do drugs and in not standing on street corners preaching. I am perfectly sane and mentally healthy and do not , repeat not, engage in any activity where I frequently receive bangs to the head or alters my perception of reality.

I believe and I am not nuts.

Drawing on all the powers of your one GCSE in Physics, Hettie, how would you go about measuring, say, intelligence?

My son's GCSE in Physics. The point I was making there is that this is not in depth scientific knowledge. It's school boy level.

Define intelligence.

I said: "Ghosts do not exist"

You said: "I absolutely disagree - ghosts do exist"

From that I was supposed to take "exists" doesn't mean "exists" and "ghosts" doesn't mean "ghosts".

Grow up.

a Nobel prize is yours

People who claim to be psychic have several accolades at their fingertips.

1. An awful lot of cash. But perhaps they aren't bothered about making money from their ability, fair enough.
2. A dead cert international prize (maybe not Nobel, I can't see which category it would fall under). But perhaps they aren't bothered about the credit achieved from their ability, fair enough.
3. The duty to share their talents because - not overstating here - it would change the entire course of the world and human civilization as we know it. It is an achievement more important than that of any social scientist, of any political leader, of any religious leader, of Jesus/Mohammed/etc himself. It would be, I think, one of the most important paradigm shifts in the course of human history and our understanding of the world.

Why on earth would anyone keep that to themselves? Why are they not moving us forward into the next great era of our development?

Nobody knows what gravity IS
It's the effect generated when bodies with mass cause spacetime to curve, thus pushing the two bodies towards eachother.

Oh, right.....look like a fool then try and cover it by pretending you didn't say what actually you did.

You said gravity is not measurable or quantifiable. Your words.

You are wrong.

Is gravity mysterious and not fully understood? Absolutely. I said that. But there's no doubt that it's there.

So your stupid comparison with ghosts fell flat on it's face.

Giles- what do you think when you watch someone like Derren Brown explaining how psychics do it?

She's embarrassing you more like, but nice ad homonym.

You can't prove I don't have the ghost of Micheal Jackson living in my fridge and giving me cooking tips

Forget everything, I want to hear more about this!

But I'm not embarrassed because I'm not here to score points. I'm interested in the theory behind things like this. Simple really.

I don't watch him. I've seen other shows that explain how a large percentage of psychics do it.

But if it's ok with you, given that I'm not harming anyone , and I have my own mind, I will continue with my long standing belief in the paranormal.

"Curlew- my point is that the intangible exists in the natural world in many forms"

Like what? I would be particularly interested in any intangibles in the natural world that can only detected by a few people......

Oh, and which need "faith" or "belief" to exist.

Ok, Hettie, I agree on the misuse of the word "Exist". I don't believe ghosts have an objective reality or being. What I am saying is if a good friend tells me they saw a ghost I wouldn't reply "LIAR! THE EXISTENCE OF GHOSTS CANNOT BE SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN!"

I'd think their experience was interesting and worthy of discussion. Because whether it was the product of imagination, a dream, collective hysteria or environmental conditions I find all of the above fascinating.

"But if it's ok with you, given that I'm not harming anyone , and I have my own mind, I will continue with my long standing belief in the paranormal."

Of course it is! I just thought your presence on this thread meant you were up for a discussion. Fine if you're not.

my point is that the intangible exists in the natural world in many forms
How do you know?

Intangible - unable to be perceived.

I'm not here to score points - the fact that I (and my fellow sceptics) manage to time after time after time is a happy bonus.

Don't any of you conclude anything from the fact that, in conversations/debates/bunfights of this sort, we're always the ones who are right? Always?

Do you think there's at least an outside chance that that's because we are?

Ghosts really, truly do not exist.