To think psychics are all fakes?

[LambinsideaDuckinsideaTrout]

I don't like that they take peoples money when they are in a vulnerable place, lost loved ones etc. It's immoral. Just my opinion.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I think you misunderstood my post Hettie.

Read it again and see if you can do better the second time. Or are you just trying to start an argument in an empty room?

Hettie- what?? Who has ever measured and quantified gravity? It cannot be measured or quantified. You can see the effect it has on matter but it is not a tangible force. And aeroplanes are all about lift and air pressure not gravity.

Aw am a bit disappointed now. Was hoping to hear from Aunt Flo

No I didn't.

You've committed the fallacy of equivocation. Look it up.

Your position about "ghosts" which can't be detected by science cannot be compared with dreams that can be detected by science.

Nice try - but I can't be patronised by someone with your thought patterns. Sorry

What on earth d you mean, you can't measure gravity? Of course you can!

You can see the effect it has on matter but it is not a tangible force

It's measured and quantified by it's effect on matter. As are all forces.

And aeroplanes are all about lift and air pressure not gravity

Erm.....an aeroplane has to escape Earth's gravity in order to fly. Some pretty important calculations are needed to make that happen. Without an understanding of gravity, this would be impossible.

Gravity is mysterious, but to try and compare it with ghosts is, sorry, embarrassingly stupid.

All forces are measured by their effect on matter. I know this from helping my son with his Physics GCSE last year. Not that he needed to be told - he's known that since he was about 10.

Scientific understanding amongst adults is shockingly bad in this country.

I could weep.

Ok, perhaps English is not your first language, Hettie? In any event you seem very good at selecting parts of people's posts and being all arsey based on that, whilst failing to grasp the overall argument.

Sorry to cut and paste, but I really can't be arsed with typing it all again.

I don't believe ghosts are the spirits of the dead. But I believe people see "ghosts". "Ghosts" are either imagination, atmospheric/environmental conditions, electromagnetic fields, low frequency sound, drugs, alcohol, being asleep/semi-conscious, collective hysteria, grief, or another function of the brain.

I don't believe mediums receive messages from spirits of the dead. I think some of them have a gift of sorts which is being very good at noticing things and 'reading' people.

I think some of them know their gift for exactly what it is, deliberately make it all "woo" and exploit people - proper charlatans.

Others have the same ability but genuinely believe they are receiving messages from the dead and don't deliberately set out to defraud or take advantage of people.

The pain of death for those of us who have lost ones is that a) dead people do not come back. EVER. NDE's are bullshit, because dead people do not come back. EVER. 'I talk to dead people and they talk to me is bullshit, because dead people do not come back. EVER; b) we want them to be all right, we want to believe there is someplace better they go. What we really want is not to be separated by them by death. So our minds claw and grab at anything that helps us feel they are somehow still with us, just in a nice place.

The reality is we do not know what happens to us after death.

Why? Because dead people do not come back, in any way, shape or form. Ever.

The mind can trick us to believe they somehow do, but it's bollocks.

Ever notice all these supposed communications from the dead are the same? 'It's beautiful here. I'm fine. I love you,' kind of stuff? No one ever says, 'This sucks! I want to be alive again! I hate this shit. I miss you.' Even murder victims or those who died by accident are suddenly A-Okay with having been robbed of their lives. Really?

Telling bereaved people they need to move on, get 'closure' whatever because their loved one is fine and wants them to be happy, smile, blah blah blah is untrue and cruel. It denigrates grief, patronising the great loss that is death and takes advantage of vulnerable people.

pax

I would be really really interested to hear your story. I am the least psychic person ever. I have the odd bad feeling about something and have had a couple of experiences seeing ghosts but I believed way way way before then.

Some of us really do find it interesting and believe in things beyond the realms of science or what we ourselves have seen :)

Hettie- gravity cannot be measured, as in, nobody knows what it is comprised of, whether it can gather at certain points or be influenced by other substances such as light etc. I find your posts very rude and ill informed. Having a closed mind is nothing to be proud of. GCSE physics? Really?

"whether it can gather at certain points or be influenced by other substances such as light etc."

Well, if could gather at certain points or be influences by light, then there would be places where the force of gravity has differing effects on surrounding objects. And there aren't.

Fucking hell.

I disagree, I absolutely believe that ghosts exist, but they are not spirits of the dead

Sorry, I have this peculiar habit of using the English language.

Ghosts MEAN spirits of the dead. If that's unclear for you, find a dictionary.

What you are actually saying is - I think people see things that they call ghosts, which is, er, bloody obvious.

I agree with you on that, who wouldn't - but to wrap that up in "I absolutely believe that ghosts exist" is a misuse of the word "exists" and the word "ghosts".

Not to mention the fact that imagination & electro-magnetism and so forth are detectable by science - so your "ghosts" are too, since that's what they are.

The fallacy of equivocation and the fallacy of making up your own definitions of words.

Ghosts do not exist.

Agree baldrick Scientists don't generally have closed minds- quite the opposite. They wouldn't dismiss your experience if you said you had seen a ghost but would try and find an explanation for it.

YANBU

Load of old bollocks

Hettie- gravity cannot be measured, as in, nobody knows what it is comprised of, whether it can gather at certain points or be influenced by other substances such as light etc. I find your posts very rude and ill informed. Having a closed mind is nothing to be proud of. GCSE physics? Really?

Oh God. I am genuinely embarrassed for you.

Thanks to Newton, gravity is a measurable force. Not coincidentally, the international standard unit of force is called a Newton (N). On Earth’s surface, roughly 0.98N equals the downward force of gravity on 100 grams of mass

Likewise, one kilogram of mass exerts a downward force of 9.8N. To calculate the force of gravity, physicists use the formula f = ma (force = mass x acceleration)

Since the acceleration of gravity is 9.8m/s2 on Earth – ie little g – we can easily calculate the Newton force of any mass. The average person’s mass is 70 kilograms, which multiplied by 9.8 gives you 686N – the force by which gravity keeps us all securely grounded

From here

I'd rather be rude than stupid.

YANBU.

All psychics are fakes. There is no evidence of the paranormal. None.

Find some and a Nobel prize is yours.

Drawing on all the powers of your one GCSE in Physics, Hettie, how would you go about measuring, say, intelligence?

Apologies if I forgot to put quotation marks around "ghosts" and "exist" in every instance of mentioning the word in various posts. I would have thought it was easy to imply the quotation marks from the argument I was making.

Giles: I find it strange that some people on this thread are so utterly, utterly convinced that they are correct: dead people are dead and don't come back.

I am told I'm a psychiatric case because I disagree.

There is no point arguing with them.

But I do find their self belief interesting.

I may rejoin this thread tonight.

Great, I'm sure we'll all look forward to that...