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Original poster

To think psychics are all fakes?

684 replies

LambinsideaDuckinsideaTrout · 11/12/2013 08:33

I don't like that they take peoples money when they are in a vulnerable place, lost loved ones etc. It's immoral. Just my opinion.

Thoughts? Opinions?

OP posts:
BaldricksTurnip · 11/12/2013 17:05

Maid- I think it's unlikely but I don't absolutely 100% know that there isn't. My mind is open to the possibility that this could be the case for whatever reason.

HettiePetal · 11/12/2013 17:05

Baldrick

There's a half full glass of coke on my coffee table that I didn't put there. And I didn't see who did.

What's the most likely explanation:

  1. The spirit of my dead grandfather was feeling thirsty, helped himself and left it there?

  2. My 17 year old son helped himself and left it there?

What's the most likely explanation - given that neither you or I saw who put it there?

Honest question.

BaldricksTurnip · 11/12/2013 17:06

Then what are you left with in the absence of sciences ability to describe and explain the universe? Belief? Faith?

HettiePetal · 11/12/2013 17:08

My mind is open to the possibility that this could be the case for whatever reason

And what would take your mind to "very unlikely to be true" to "very likely to be true"? (teapot).

What would it take?

HettiePetal · 11/12/2013 17:09

Neither. If science can't explain something "I don't know" works quite well until it can. If it never can, then we'll never know.

MaidOfStars · 11/12/2013 17:13

Baldrick, your response is the only one consistent with your overall position.

But Russell made the teapot up. He had no evidence for it - it was imaginary. He deliberately designed the scenario to be so ludicrous that the position taken by you is clearly untenable.

Your position - the non-scientific approach - dictates that you MUST accept the possibility of Russell's ludicrous teapot, based only on his word. My position - the scientific approach - is to dismiss the premise until evidence is provided. You have conceded that my conclusion - there is no such teapot - is likely correct. This suggests that you can see why lack of evidence engenders lack of acceptance of a premise. Why apply this skepticism to the teapot (despite Russell's personal testimony) yet not to the psychic (which is ONLY supported by personal testimony)?

The world cannot progress, we cannot move towards any kind of truth, if we work from your position.

BaldricksTurnip · 11/12/2013 17:15

Hettie- I'm ambivalent. If it's there it's there if it's not it's not. I wouldn't dismiss out of hand there being a teapot because teapots do exist as far as I'm aware. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for one to be floating around in space. What's your point?

BaldricksTurnip · 11/12/2013 17:16

Maid- I'm not skeptical about the teapot I'm ambivalent.

BaldricksTurnip · 11/12/2013 17:17

I would argue that it is a much more truthful stance to take to accept possibility rather than dismiss it.

MaidOfStars · 11/12/2013 17:18

You said earlier: 'you think it's unlikely'.

Based on what? Why do you think it's unlikely?

Gileswithachainsaw · 11/12/2013 17:25

www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/news/orbital_debris.html#.UqifrXggGc0

Not a complete impossibility

:o

HettiePetal · 11/12/2013 17:29

Hettie- I'm ambivalent. If it's there it's there if it's not it's not. I wouldn't dismiss out of hand there being a teapot because teapots do exist as far as I'm aware. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for one to be floating around in space. What's your point?

I think you're being disingenuous.

You must know how stunningly unlikely it is that there's a teapot orbiting Mars. I don't believe there's a single part of your mind that believes that's likely to be true.

It might be true, of course. Intellectually, we must all acknowledge that - certainly every scientist would - but the chances are so incredibly slim, that we are close to "knowing" that there's no teapot orbiting Mars.

You seem to be under the impression that we are all proclaiming that there's 100% certainty there's no such thing as ghosts.

I can't even be 100% certain that I am not a brain in a vat - so how could I be that certain about ghosts. What evidence am I basing that certainty on?

I am pretty certain ghosts (99.9+%) don't exist because a) there's no evidence for them and b) the very notion of them flies in the face of ALL known.

I have not closed my mind to the possibility of anything - show me the evidence and I truly will change my mind. The evidence is everything.

HettiePetal · 11/12/2013 17:30

ALL known science.

curlew · 11/12/2013 17:32

"Then what are you left with in the absence of sciences ability to describe and explain the universe?

A gap- until it is filled by more evidence based discoveries. 'I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable response!

I have said several times that, while I agree you can't prove a negative, you can build up such a body of evidence that you have come as near as possible to doing so. To that end, I am happy to prove any psychic you care to bring me either mistaken or a fraud. I will carry on doing this until I drop dead with exhaustion or we run out of psychics.

HettiePetal · 11/12/2013 17:33

I would argue that it is a much more truthful stance to take to accept possibility rather than dismiss it

Everyone accepts possibility.

It's probability that matters.

ActionA · 11/12/2013 17:37

Hettie doesn't sound like a petulant child. She sounds like somebody who is frustrated by trying to explain things to people who can't engage with primary school level logic.

BaldricksTurnip · 11/12/2013 17:42

And if there are infinite probabilities and infinite possibilities what then? You have to by default accept that while you believe the likelihood that psychic phenomena is unlikely it is impossible to disprove absolutely and not beyond the realms of possibility.

TheBreastmilksOnMe · 11/12/2013 17:48

YABU. But there are a LOT of fakes out there that tarnish what a good 'psychic' does. A genuine psychic uses there enhanced intuition to see possible futures for you. Nothing is set in stone so at the end of the day you are ultimately in control of where your life is heading. A psychic can only give you the various possibilities based on your mind set and current circumstances.

And it's not a 'gift' it's a sixth sense. We all have it. Some people have better hearing, others better eyesight, psychics just have a finely honed sense of intuition. We can all develop our own intuition to a degree.

It's a shame that there are charlatans out there who do prey on vulnerable people but it's the same for a lot of 'professions'. You just need to use your common sense and ask yourself why you are seeking the help of an intuitive. Most people who seek this sort of help would be better off with the help of a counsellor or psychologist and I mean that with almost respect. There are a lot of hurt, angry, confused people out there.

curlew · 11/12/2013 18:11

"A psychic can only give you the various possibilities based on your mind set and current circumstances."

So nothing supernatural at all. Why use the word "psychic" then? Why not use life coach? Counsellor? Advisor? Career counsellor?

BackOnlyBriefly · 11/12/2013 18:11

Intuition has to be based on something though. If mine said that you should be careful crossing the road next thursday on what could I possibly be basing it?

HettiePetal · 11/12/2013 18:24

And if there are infinite probabilities and infinite possibilities what then?

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

You have to by default accept that while you believe the likelihood that psychic phenomena is unlikely it is impossible to disprove absolutely and not beyond the realms of possibility

Yes, for the millionth time.

You seem to think this is some kind of valid point. It's not.

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the universe was created by a giant farting hippo in a pink tutu called Alistair.

But I don't believe that, because I have no reason to.

We base our conclusions about the world on what evidence we DO have - not on evidence that we don't. We construct probabilities based around an awful lot of information collated from an awful lot of sources.

You cannot conclude ANYTHING without evidence - and there is no evidence for something that doesn't exist (because non-existant things leave no evidence), so you cannot therefore reach a conclusion about them. Other than that they probably don't exist.

I don't know how to be plainer.

Sallystyle · 11/12/2013 18:31

I have had many dreams come true. Dreams that came from no where and were a total shock.

I told my mum her mum had died the morning she passed away. It wasn't expected, I told her to go round because she needed her. I was 12.

I have seen mediums at church for free, some have got everything so very wrong it was laughable and embarrassing. I have had some that were spot on. They never met me before, they knew nothing about me but told me some very impressive stuff. Including the date and time of a death of a loved one years previously.

My not very thought out theory is that when you die your energy still remains for some time and some people can tap into energy. That is the only way I can explain my experiences, and I am a skeptic. However some of the things I was told I just couldn't find a logical explanation of how some random stranger would know things about me like that which happened years ago which you had to be in my house to know.

I have no idea what is out there. I think people who have these skills aren't talking to the dead, but I don't know how they got things so spot on. I also never lead any of them. I answer yes or no, never gave any information away. I have seen people give away information and then a so called medium then pretending they knew it already. I shook my head if something was wrong and nodded if something was right. The date and time of death they gave me was the first thing they said. I didn't lead them to it.

So I don't know. I remain open to the possibility than anything is possible.

BaldricksTurnip · 11/12/2013 18:35

But it IS a valid point! It's the point I am making. There has been total dismissing of others points of view on this thread and the dismissal has been absolute. My argument has been that you cannot dismiss anything absolutely and to do so is ridiculous. I have made my point, you have accepted it. I haven't got anything else to say to you.

curlew · 11/12/2013 18:36

This "not proving a negative" thing is a bit of a red herring. Of course you can't- technically. But you can't actually prove that if you put your cup down on a table it won't fall through. Or that the sea might turn to ink. Or that you might wake up tomorrow morning as a giant penguin. But these things are ^not going to happen". In order to function you have to accept that some things are genuinely impossible, or not true. And the mounting pile of evidence against ghosts and psychics are as near to proof as is possible.

throwingstones · 11/12/2013 18:37

Lots of interesting anecdotes, yet the James Randi prize goes unclaimed. Either psychics enjoy being poor, are already all rich from predicting the lottery numbers every week or they're all full of shit.

In their defence though they get rough treatment compared to the purveyors of religion who peddle a similar bucket of shit and do much better out of it.