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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be a bit depressed by friend's attitude to Santa?

129 replies

hestergraysgarden · 06/12/2013 22:57

Friend popped in for a coffee after work. We were talking about Xmas shopping, and I mentioned that I'd bought one of those letter to Santa holders (the ones made of felt) for DS, who is too small to realise it is Christmas, but I wanted to write him a letter from Santa telling him all about who he is and what he does and the like. I thought it could be the start of a tradition for as long as he believes in Santa, and then I'll keep the letters and replies to give to him when he's old enough to get some sort of nostalgia pleasure out of them.

Okay, some people may find that vomit-inducing, which is totally fine, but I think it will be nice.

Friend looked a bit sneery at this and said that she didn't agree with lying to small children, and she won't be telling hers about Santa (and will correct them if they do start believing in him). She also expressed concern that Santa is a very disturbing concept (strange man coming down chimney) and that it is putting children at risk of succumbing to 'stranger danger'

AIBU to think that she is pissing in the mulled wine slightly? I felt a bit deflated after she'd gone and had to eat several mince pies

OP posts:

4athomeand1cooking · 07/12/2013 09:19

Intitgrand, I think it does not matter, Children will always believe the way they are brought up. The whole belief system is based in faith and children tolerate different faiths a lot more than adults do. If a child were to say that he is not real and said child has been brought up with the faith that he is, very little will change until the child has the ability to think logically for themselves. At that point they are old enough to know the truth IMO.

AnneWentworth · 07/12/2013 09:28

Do people really put so much effort into the Santa thing?

We believed and my DC believe, it is lightly encouraged but not to any great degree to convince anyone. My parents answered questions with Santa is magic and I do the same but we don't have any cast iron story about which presents he brings or are from him or anything. We always knew and my DC know presents are from people, glorified postman but they get excited.

grumpyoldbat · 07/12/2013 09:56

My dd said to me: " l know Santa's not real but it's nice to believe for a bit that someone can be totally nice like that"

jamdonut · 07/12/2013 09:58

I never lied about Santa, I just didn't tell the truth! DC's 1 and 2 believed fervently, but DC3,( great philososopher that he is) , worked it out for himself by about age 6, much to my sadness.
( But that is him. He told a visiting vicar to his infant school that he didn't believe in God, and why! Much to my horror - I witnessed this as I was training to be a TA in the school at the time! Caused much hilarity in the staffroom, I can tell you!)

But once they all knew, they were under strict instructions not tell those that still believed ,the "truth",because it is part of the magic of Christmas.

At school,if children ask me if Santa is real, I say "What do you think?" and if they say "Yes, he's real" I say "Well,there you are then!" and to those that say "No" I say "How do you know?" If it is obvious that they truly know he is not real i.e. they have seen the presents,or been told by Mum etc, I just say "That's OK, you are in on the secret of how it works, but don't spoil it for others,it is up to their parents to tell them."

It is just a Tradition, isn't it. For those of us who are not religious and believe it is Jesus' Birthday, it is just one in a long line of myths and traditions at this time of year...yule log, mistletoe, holly and ivy, even stars and nativity scenes. Do we really want to stop being traditional?

Obviously it is your choice what you tell your children, but I really don't see the harm in it.

Besides, if you don't tell your children Father Christmas/ Santa exists, how do you explain all the Santa stories and films and pictures of him and the reindeer everywhere, and children queuing at "Santa's grotto",and why they can't go??? A lot of Schools have Santa visit with some sort of present for them.
We're having a Polar Express day at the end of term, watching the film and having hot chocolate and marshmallows . I believe,I do,I do, I do!!!

katherinelilyflower · 07/12/2013 10:03

Jam, I don't think anyone thinks there is any harm in it, I have just chosen not to tell my daughter about it as a truism.

There is a huge gulf between 'I/we have chosen to do this' and 'I think this is harmful'!

intitgrand · 07/12/2013 10:15

i see on problem with santa coming to all children. What i do not like at all is the whole naughty and nice thing which caused oe a lot oe anxiety as a child . I was by no means a naughty child but i was a worrier and always worried he wouldn t come to me

goldenlula · 07/12/2013 10:17

I never felt my parents had lied to me about Father Christmas, they took part in a myth and made Christmas fun and magical (not saying that it can't be these things with FC). All mine still believe, including ds1 who has just turned 8. I was alight le older than him when I spied my mum putting my presents on my bed. I kept up with the pretence until I was almost 11, as I liked getting the presents from FC and thought that would stop if they knew I no longer believed .
Due to my feelings about the 'lie' I do not feel I am telling them lies, but partaking in a story that they enjoy.

LimitedEditionLady · 07/12/2013 10:25

There is a new league of people......father christmas enforcers!!Do they get a uniform?

valiumredhead · 07/12/2013 10:28

I do actually agree with your friend OP but would never be so rude as to sneer at a friend's choices.

firesidechat · 07/12/2013 10:29

We never "did" Santa and my now adult children love Christmas with a passion.

Like katherinelilyflower we had our own reasons for doing it like this and Christmas is still full of magic without the Big Fat Man.

It would be great if we could live and let live on this subject once and for all. I don't judge those who do Santa, so don't judge me. Thank you.

katherinelilyflower · 07/12/2013 10:30

Absolutely fireside.

LimitedEditionLady · 07/12/2013 10:46

I dont thinah anyone is being too judgemental about not doing the FC thing to be honest?

SukiBirdee · 07/12/2013 11:13

Well none of us have any proof that Father Christmas definitely doesn't exist as he could be out there somewhere, so it might actually be a lie to tell your children there is absolutely no FC.

That's why I'm deliberately vague with my DDs!

SaucyJack · 07/12/2013 11:14

We do stockings here, and visit Santa at the Xmas Fayre but it's all just a bit of fun, and I have have never, and will never, tell me children he is actually real.

I find it's those who try to insist Santa is real in the face of all common sense, and that their kids must believe at all costs or the Magic Of Christmas Will Be Ruined Forever who're the weirdos who need to lighten up.

It is just make-believe. No need to go overboard with it IMO.

LimitedEditionLady · 07/12/2013 11:53

Well i doubt itd be ruined forever if ds doesnt think hes real,he might not think hes real anyway,hes only two?Just like I dont know if he thinks we can go to balamory and see pc plum....its not that its ruined forever its that special little extra,why are people being like this over FC.

im going to tell on you all in my letter

Branleuse · 07/12/2013 12:06

theres massive incentive for the idea of santa to be pushed.

That way we buy more presents than we can afford because we cant say WE didnt have enough money, because its all about them being good or bad.

Kids then play along with it far longer than they need to.

I dont actually remember ever being told seriously that FC existed, and im still pretty sure I had nice christmasses, and I was still really really happy the year my mum was only able to get me black plimsolls and a plastic football for xmas because we were poor, because it was certainly not equated to how good a person I was

I do play along with the father christmas thing, but I dont make a massive deal about it, and I won't. If they ask me if its true, i'll tell them that some children believe it and some dont, but that I think its a lovely magical story

LimitedEditionLady · 07/12/2013 12:18

Im not going to say all the gifts are from fc im going to say the one he asked for is.That way i can say grandma bought him some etc so he can thank them.

comingintomyown · 07/12/2013 12:26

Mum never mentioned Santa one way or another

I used to take the DC to grottos etc when they were young and say he had been in the night to fill their stockings but honestly don't remember when they knew it wasn't real , we didn't talk about it !

These Santa threads are hilarious real diamond shoe philosophical debates !

lade · 07/12/2013 14:03

I don't care one way or another what other people do.

But like Caruthers, it does make me go when religious people say they won't do FC due to lying to children, but then go on about the nativity story - that's the biggest lie there is! I guess the difference is, they believe that lie... Which only makes me think the FC is more harmless, because you're not then spreading lies to children that they will continue to believe, at least children grow out of that lie.

lade · 07/12/2013 14:04

That was supposed to be the confused face. Doesn't look very confused to me!

thenamestheyareachanging · 07/12/2013 20:54

You're very arrogant, Lade, it must be great to have the definitive answer on everything, and to know the absolute truth about religion better than others do.

thenamestheyareachanging · 07/12/2013 20:59

The Nativity isn't a lie, it is part of a religious faith. Father Christmas is a lie because we know it isn't true. I do tell my children the Nativity story - but I also say "this is what I believe" and they are fully aware that not everyone believes it. That is not the same as presenting father Christmas as fact.

In answer to questions earlier in the thread - no, I don't lie about serious issues either. I would say "I'll discuss it with you when you're older" if necessary - but my children's questions are answered honestly. If they asked if something hurt, I'd be honest - because otherwise they wouldn't trust me, surely? This year a family friend died in tragic circumstances - and I was very honest with my children - I began by saying "X has died" and then answered their questions as they were asked. I don't believe it is my job to shield my children from difficult things, but to help them deal with it.

PansOnFire · 07/12/2013 21:13

Your friend was rude, it doesn't matter whether people choose to follow a tradition or not, belittling another parent is rude and uncalled for.

I have an ex friend who didn't come to my son's christening because she doesn't believe in lying to children. I didn't find out about this until I read about it on another forum don't use your real name as your screen name and then bitch about your friends. We'd had a few differences in opinion about silly parenting issues before but I believed she wasn't judging me. It seems she was! Seriously, you don't need judgy friends, this parenting lark is hard enough as it is. BTW I love your idea!

lade · 07/12/2013 22:38

I posted a whole long thing on another thread, thinking it was this one and don't think I can be arsed to write the whole thing again. Names.

I think it comes down to how you define a lie. One dictionary definition defines a lie as: " an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker". You don't have to know it is a lie, for it to be a lie per se...

Now, if you consider all the historical inaccuracies or untrue statements in the nativity story... (Not necessarily those found in the Bible).. But for example, the Bible clearly States Jesus was born under the rule of Quirinus, governor of Syria (Luke 2). He became ruler of Syria in 6CE. But the Bible also states Jesus was born under the rule of King Hreod. He died in 4BCE. So, if Jesus really was born under Herod, he was 10 years old when the first ever census is recorded as happening (AD6). Whichever way you look at it, one part of it is "untrue or inaccurate". Oh yes, and that's what is technically defined as a lie.

I don't know all the answers to religion, never claim to, and tbh it's been a long time since I did my theology degree, and I openly admit my theology is now very rusty... But amongst theologians (at least at my Uni!) this really was quite a basic fact. Of course, you can choose to call these inaccuracies whatever you like; myth, faith, tradition... The point remains both (nativity and Father Christmas) are things where we like to emphasise the story, rather than worrying about the true factual accuracies. Are they really that different?

PansOnFire · 07/12/2013 23:37

No, it doesn't come down to how you define a lie. It comes down to what things you put in place to enhance an experience for your children and how other people should respect your choices. This is what the OP was asking.

And BTW, comparing belief in religion to belief in Father Christmas is incredibly disrespectful.

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