To be really sad and upset. RIP Nelson Mandela :-(

[LittlePeaPod]

I know I am not but wanted to share the sad news. Loss of a grat man and inspirational leader.

news.sky.com/story/1178430/nelson-mandela-dies-president-confirms

he is one of the few public figures who has 'put his money where his mouth is'. there are probably no other politicians/public figures of his stature in the world now. he is not a saint but he survived a murderous regime that was backed up by outside forces like thatcher and reagan and did not give in to the urge for vengence. he also did not try to make himself president for life, like some politicians

was menachem begin a terrorist when he escaped the warsaw ghetto and fought the nazis during the second world war? he opposed the despicable government of germany/poland who made the law that the Jews should be herded into a small area of their city then shipped off and murdered. was he a terrorist?

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
That said, RIP Mandela

So you don't consider the children innocents?

You have proof that all of the white people killed where bringing up their children to abuse blacks?

And the ANC didn't kill any black people?

do you think they weren't bringing up their children to abuse black people? people were still emigrating to SA from this country in the 1980s to live the easy life, taking advantage of the blacks. i get fed up of white people trying to pretend that all white people and white children are all lovely people.

white south africans were NOT innocents, not one of them. they acquiesced in the murderous, neglectful regime and had to be forced to end it.

did you know that the ultimate plan of the whites in SA was to force the blacks to live on 15% of the land, the dry useless bits and keep the 85% of beaches, mountains etc for themselves. they would have a large compliant workforce who they would be able to treat like shit. did you know that about the poor, suffering 'innocent' whites?

creighton My friend who lost her mother due to a bomb authorised by NM, was brought up against the apartheid, by both parents. I think her mother would be considered an innocent. She was 27 and had a six month old baby, a toddler and my friend, she was young, she had been brought up believing in the apartheid, it was normal. And she still disagreed, and she brought up my friend not believing in that.

Many white SAfricans were cruel and evil people. As a black SAfrican, I was on the receiving end, as a kid. And there were a lot of them. Quite a few were deeply misguided people who had been brought up believing one thing, much like, for example, religion. One person I particularly remember was somebody or other from the church. They were nice. But because we were black, they thought we were stupid or to be pitied or so on. They weremjust too cruel, too set- and maybe couldn't admit it to themselves, because it would send their world crashing down. That isn't escusable.

Some people, a minority to be fair, disagreed with the regime. Nelson Mandela killed them. He was no saint. He never said he was. He openly admitted them, mourned them and wrote about them. That was the thing I liked best about him as a president.

*excusable

crieghton

I haven't said that all whites where innocent, but you cannot prove that all where guilty, again do you not consider the children to be innocents?

Do you condone the "Necklacing" done by the ANC to other blacks?

"Nelson Mandela killed them. He was no saint. He never said he was. He openly admitted them, mourned them and wrote about them. That was the thing I liked best about him as a president."

I agree with this, he didn't try to hide what he had done, and made no excuses for it.

crieghton I'm a white South African and I find your post offensive as fuck. Was I hell brought up to "abuse black people".

i don't have to prove anything, the fact that the apartheid regime lasted until the 1980s shows widespread acceptance of the situation by the whites. as for the ANC killing blacks, no i don't agree with that at all, they should have focused their efforts on the white regime.

white children would have been taught racism from their first words so no, they are not innocent.

creighton you can go to hell with that comment. My lovely, lovely late father wouldn't have dreamed of teaching me racism. What a stupid thing to say.

no i won't go to hell. the regime lasted for most of the 20th century. white people accepted it and let it go on until the africans forced their hand. if the africans hadn't acted the whites in SA would still be going on with their vicious bullshit and you know it.

backinthering, did you fight apartheid or did you just move to england when you thought the situation was getting a bit 'hairy' or that you now had to compete with blacks for jobs?

Your massive generalisations about "all white south africans" are, in fact, bullshit.

I don't live in England.

creighton

"i don't have to prove anything, the fact that the apartheid regime lasted until the 1980s shows widespread acceptance of the situation by the whites"

you don't have to prove anything but your lack of acceptance that not all whites supported the regime shows that you have a bigoted and racist attitude.

"as for the ANC killing blacks, no i don't agree with that at all,"

But its ok to kill whites, even without any proof?

"white children would have been taught racism from their first words so no, they are not innocent."

enough said.

don't you dare defend the whites who wallowed in the soft life lived at the africans' expense. in a war situation did you expect them to take a register before acting? did the whites take a register before acting badly towards the blacks or did they act indiscriminately?

was it okay to have the servants living in huts in the garden? was it okay that the servants had to leave their children behind in townships or 'tribal homelands' to come to town to pander to the lazy white women's children? was it okay to pay workers in wine, so that they became alcoholic and could be worked until they dropped?

even their god was racist, with white and coloured branchs of their churches.

Violence can never be accepted as a legitimate means to get your own way, everyone was wrong in SA, apartheid was awful but mandelas anc were nothing but filthy terrorists. Mandela would have been released from robben island if he renounced violence as a way of gaining political influence but he refused it, he was no better than gerry adams or osame bin laden.

no better than Gerry Adams or Osama bin Laden

That is the most imbecilic thing I've heard in a long time *NigellaLaw5on'

Read mandela a critical life by tom lodge.

I have been in Manuela's cell, had a tour of robben island and I have seen mandela in person and he radiated charisma.

I feel lucky that I have been to robben island, I think if nigella lawson went he or she would change for the better!

NigellaLawson,

the british have used violence to get its own way for 300 years in countries that have never done anything to antagonise them

the british have never renounced violence

the british have been involved in military violence every year since the second world war despite declaring war only on the Argentinians, the Iraqis and Afghanistan.

Please write to the queen and the prime minister and everyone in the british army to tell them that violence is never justified.

listen to this apologist for racism and apartheid - apartheid was only awful but the anc were filthy terrorists. is your name botha or deklerk or pienaar or some such name?

NM was right not to pander to the dirty apartheid regime, he was right not to renounce violence. no one should renounce violence