To Think My Ex's Alpha Church 'mates' Overstepped The Mark?

[absoluteidiot]

Here's the scenario. My ex convicted this summer, found guilty of harassing me. His two character witnesses (not allowed to take stand as he had a previous conviction for harassing another woman) were two very young looking 'men' from his church's Alpha Course.

The church were fully aware he was harassing me. He completed the Alpha course DURING the time he was harassing me so hasn't found god and been 'cured' since.

He was caught lying in court, where he pleaded Not Guilty. The two character witnesses heard all the proceedings which exposed ten years' worth of harassing women, and heard a District Judge pronounce him Guilty. They know what he did and that he lied in court, denying it.

Though found Guilty, at sentencing the Alpha males were allowed to be character witnesses which must have helped. He got a suspended sentence, and a leg tag, which was removed a few days ago. It had imposed a curfew on him, making it impossible for him to turn up here. Previously the judge had said it was at the severe end of harassment and the police had always felt so too. We were led to believe it would be a custodial sentence as it wasn't a first offence, and his first offence was also so bad he had a 5 mth sentence.

Now today, on FB, he has posted a picture of him, his vicar, the two character witness boys and their WAGs 'celebrating' (out for a meal in London, presumably celebrating removal of the leg tag).

Previously his Twitter Feed and FB has been full of supportive messages encouraging this woman harassing lunatic, from fellow Alpha course graduates.

Am I being unreasonable being incensed that these people are openly supporting a man who harassed women? And appear to be celebrating and congratulating him for getting away with it?

Pterodactyl that was a very enlightening post, I think. Makes a lot of sense.

So much anti Christian hate on here. Substitute Christian for Muslim and this thread would have been pulled long ago.

I've been on an Alpha course, it's just a course to help people learn more about Christianity. There were all sorts of people on mine, including a couple of fairly unsavoury characters. I imagine the Christians associating with your ex are trying to help him turn his life around, I can't imagine that they condone his behaviour. I would take it as a positive thing that he has people in his life trying to help him.

Who cares what he is doing, as long as he stays the fuck away from you.

I get keeping an eye on him to make sure he doesn't flag up that he is heading your way.

But if hanging out with his mates means he has other things on, then all well and good.

I get your anger at the light sentence, but the key thing here is, he isn't harassing you anymore.

Your anger at the sentence should be directed at the person doing the sentencing.

Unfortunately many religious types are massive hypocrites. It's as if their motivation in being religious is the belief that God is therefore their special friend and always on their side - a grown-up variation of 'My dad is bigger than your Dad'.

I was at college with a 'born again' couple who used to steal cars to have sex in. As far as they were concerned they were untouchable because they were born again and their victims almost definitely weren't. And a local church congregation justified their priest raping small boys because God needed to be sure that they would remain faithful to the church no matter what...

I would never say all religious believers are evil, but by the same token many of them are not pleasant people.

I don't think it is anti christian to say these people are massive dicks who seem to meddle in things they don't understand, and enable the criminally-minded in order to get more brownie points with their imaginary friend. If that is what's gone on - and it is.

If they were a group of evangelistic stamp collectors, I'd have posted the same thing. (Damned philatelists - look at them committing crimes against women then high fiving eachother and putting pictures of their 'celebrations' online...)

It is telling that a few folk who have seen them closer up than I have, also have negative experiences to report.

As I said though he was doing the Alpha course (and then being triumphantly 'graduated' whatever the word is from it) actually as this dozen emails a day thing was going on. So "We've turned your life round" is utter rubbish as he was already one of them whilst he was harassing women (and as police told me, I am not the only one. I got it to a warning, then arrest, then court, then a guilty verdict - the next victim was already at the warning stage, months back....)

I don't think it is anti christian to say these people are massive dicks who seem to meddle in things they don't understand

This, for me, sums up the whole thread, the whole issue with the internet, the church, the street, toddler groups, school runs. We only ever get to see one side. This group of people are only hearing his side. We are only hearing yours. I am not saying I disbelieve you OP, just trying to explain what is happening their end.

Just for the record, I do totally believe you. BUT, I would not go wading in to be a character reference in a court of law to support you on the basis of this thread, which is more or less what they did for your Ex, So yes, they did overstep the mark, YANBU!!

Well for me a huge question here is, this man has form, previous imprisonment, multiple female harrasment victims, guilty verdict in conduct to OP and not allowed to see kids, pending cases with other women, a record across different police areas etc etc etc.

Why the fuck is he not in prison. He sounds like a danger to women. My understanding of how things "work in the UK" is a man who posed this level of threat to multiple victims and had been imprisoned previously, would e locked up. Yet again I am taken aback by how our judicial system so often treats men like this. ie says yeah yeah so what.

OP can you appeal or anything, testifying at any hearings with women he is harassing currently? Are you in touch with the police?

My ex convicted this summer, found guilty of harassing me

Judge pronounce him Guilty

incensed that these people are openly supporting a man who harassed women? And appear to be celebrating and congratulating him for getting away with it?

Make your mind up, was he convicted or acquitted?

And Im afraid the whole point of Christianity is to love the sinner and hope to turn them to the path of righteousness. If you want a bit of flogging and stoning, try another country with different values.

TBH I have to ask the obvious question - why are you looking at his facebook? Delete, block, ignore, forget.

"OP can you appeal or anything, testifying at any hearings with women he is harassing currently? Are you in touch with the police?"

No appeal. The thing about sentencing was, it happened one month after verdict. So although the character witnesses weren't allowed to testify in court before the verdict, once the verdict was there, I am told by the police that they did do their little act on the day of the sentencing. Apparently if you have previous they are usually not allowed but he was representing himself so turned up with them.

I was fairly sure he lost the case during my ten minutes in the stand as he was caught out telling a massive lie. His defence had been that someone else had done it - and then he offered to explain a bible passage that no-one had given chapter and verse for, or even paraphrased. This was the precise one from over 600 emails. The christians were sat at the back, listening, and heard this so like everyone else in court must have known, at that point, they were supporting a liar.

Now the other problem was I live in Yorkshire. Defendant lives in London. Because the crimes were committed in a different police area, it ended up being handled by 2 police forces. The Met ballsed up by forgetting to ask me, after the verdict, to submit a statement saying how the crime affected me. My local coppers assumed the London coppers had everything under control.

This meant, on the day of the sentencing, the judge had no statement from me. (I had been out of the building by the time the verdict came in, as I gave my evidence, then went off for a walk as someone told us it would be ages yet).

I am guessing the fact I didn't write a piece about how traumatised I was, helped him get the lighter sentence.

I am also guessing he played the mental health card and the christians maybe promised to get him some help.

Police told me at the time that I wasn't allowed to even mention a Family Court appointed psych had diagnosed him with paranoid personality disorder as apparently if I had so much as hinted that, he could ahve got off on some technicality.

This is the second time he was done for harassing me, I should add. The first time - a different police force again - he got off on a technicality.

I did however succeed in getting a restraining order granted and so far as I know, that is not finite. He can never contact me again in any way, or he gets banged up.

In the witness box, I was sideways on, and supposed to be addressing the judge, and only looking at the judge but as he wrote things down, I was able to look at these two idiots from the Alpha Males, and they looked absolutely stunned and shamefaced by my testimony. Then he was caught lying. Then he was found Guilty. They had a month to walk away from him, now knowing he had lied to them as well as a court of law. As others say, maybe these people are just naturally dishonest.

Christ almighty.

To coin a phrase.

He sounds like a piece of work.

Bohemian, read the thread.

Are the police in your current area aware of all this?

Do your children's school know he has done time and is not allowed near etc?

I have little experience of this I am afraid. I am sorry that the UK court system has not given you the satisfaction and protection that I would think your case (and the other women, combined with previous conviction) warranted.

Having said that I am not surprised at all that the met let you down.

Have you complained?

Ah and forgot to say but no longer in contact with police. They pretty welll vanish once the CPS has got the paperwork.

The Yorkshire police were brilliant. The Met - left a lot to be desired. They gave me the impression they were snowed under with work, even before they messed up with my impact statement. I have since had a lengthy and sincere apology from them for mucking up. But no they are long since onto something else (this was late this summer), and I was told that was it.

I found out about the other person getting the warning against him because one of the Met officers told me on the phone. He also said, he'd been dying to meet this man as apparently he is notorious in their office - although he'd never personally seen him before he arrested him - and "I'd heard the name". They are not supposed to tell you about other people or other cases. I have an inkling who the other victim may be. And it is a man if it is who I think it is (the previous one he was sent down for was a female victim. Police officer told me this person's job and so I think I know who it is).

At the time it was going on, I ticked the box on my statement for Victim Support. But they never called or rang or emailed. Hence the balls up re the lack of impact statement.

Yes, the kids' schools have always had copies of the original Prohibited Steps order made by the Family Court. My local police station has it too and assures me any call out to my address would be top priority.

But since, the recent lawyer told me that Family Court orders 'have no teeth' which is why he shot for the Restraining Order.

The case was heard in Magistrates' Court but because of the 'difficult' nature of the defendant, they assigned it a District Judge, rather than magistrates. He kicked arse.

And Bohemian I can't let this ride
"the whole point of Christianity is to love the sinner and hope to turn them to the path of righteousness".

If that's your "whole point" of christianity then clearly much of the new testament is unfamiliar to you and stuff like the actions of the RC church in covering up child abuse are right and proper and CHRISTIAN.

If that is really the "whole point of christianity" to you - ie you would have left the poor samaritan to die in the dirt in favour of hunting down the men who beat him and trying to save them - then you are massively missing the kind of ENTIRE point.

And you see THAT sort of comment is why so many people feel as friday16 does.

oh fuckit the person in the dirt was not a samaritan but a so the words are wrong.

But you get the POINT surely.

I'm assuming it is like Grand Theft Auto. They must get more points for redeeming an utter bastard. 'Saving' the 'soul' of a genuine nice, decent, kind person probably has little value. Or they'd be 'celebrating' more constructive actions than having your leg tag removed..?

TBH I have to ask the obvious question - why are you looking at his facebook? Delete, block, ignore, forget.

Why don't you RTFT?

It's natural to be concerned when your former harrasser has just got out of stir and has had his tag removed to wonder about his current whereabouts.

How nice it must be to live in your world of fairies and rainbows.

nice thats a twaddle comparison and you know it. The story of the Good Samaritan shows how our enemy can be our friend.

Jesus also advocated turning the other cheek.

However I'm not having a theological debate with you at this time of night.

OK so your kids school knows and your local police know. And they are all "on board" as it were.

Can you let the met / /yorkshire police / other relevant forces know that you would be prepared to testify if he comes to court again (if you are prepared don't blame you if you're not).

Does his local force know, can you get your force to alert them or something.

Can the 3 of you just chnage names and disappear

I dunno. I am so sorry you are in this position.

Bohemain

You said this

"And Im afraid the whole point of Christianity is to love the sinner and hope to turn them to the path of righteousness."

And now you have told the OP to TURN THE OTHER CHEEK despite the fact that he has previous convictions for harassment including prison time.

Your version of christianity is bothersome and troubling. Sounds like you would get on with OPs ex and his mates, to be quite frank. She has kids FFS if you don't care about OPs safety hat about them.

No, I'm not moving - I won't be intimidated. And I stuck it out here, knowing he knew where I was, for years after he got away with it the first time - feel less vulnerable now...

They know I will quite happily help/testify whatever, whenever needed. My husband had to have a day off work, us work out elaborate babysitting arrangements, etc etc in the summer so we could go down to London the first time, for our day in court. Only for us to sit downstairs in the witness care area all day and never get called, as he pulled some timewasting fillibustering stunt.

So by the time he got found guilty, a month later, we'd gone through it all twice. In their apology letter, the Met noted my "bravery" and the witness care people told me on the day it got adjourned, that most men who pull that trick tend to be DV defendants, who know the ropes, and know that it intimidates the witness - apparently the vast majority of women then never turn up the second time, to testify. They called me 'brave' too! What that told me was - they know I am unusually persistent. And I will go through that as many times as needed, to help his other victims, if anyone ever needs me...

I have seen him just this past week bombarding certain people he is fixated with, on Twitter - sending the same tweet over and over. (Assume the Alpha Males can see this as well on their feed). I can't tell you how tempted I have been to private message them, telling them he now has a second conviction and to go to the police...

I got the impression it will filter back to other people he is harassing. Police have let drop things to me in the past I am sure they weren't supposed to tell me, so maybe they do this to other victims too.

I'm extremely close to lots of evangelical church attenders/leaders. I'd say they tend to support anyone and everyone who walks through their doors. The church i know generally attracts people with issues/needs of one kind or another. People are blindly supported and church management/leaders and tend to believe the best of their church goers whatever their history. It has always stuck me as naive. Your ex will be very happy to have found people who will support him unquestioningly. He would have charmed them with his version of events and they would have enjoyed being his personal saviour. It will all come unstuck though when he starts harassing women actually in the church.

Yes I would private message the people he is hat raising but keep it factual 'I thought you should know that this man has been convicted of harassment in August 2913'. Nothing more.

The story of the Good Samaritan shows how our enemy can be our friend.

Jesus also advocated turning the other cheek.

So children raped by priests should (a) love their rapist and (b) let their rapist do it again? And to do otherwise would be un-Christian?

This church has been dangerously and stupidly naive imo. They will find out soon enough if your account is anything to go by. A lot of churches are big on accountability.

But a lot of churches are not big on accountability, as eg friday extensively points out, so take this to the bishop, making it very clear, with supporting emails and history, that what this church has done is deeply inappropriate ie celebrating that he got off with a light sentence.

btw the courts aren't exactly known for being non-sexist. Just saying. If you have it in you, make a stink all the way up those orgs (courts, police) too re the way the case was handled eg the absence of a victim statement.

I hope you get peace now. I imagine it is only a matter of time before he is caught out for good.