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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to want this boy excluded from school.

223 replies

dementedmumof6 · 30/11/2013 20:15

There is a boy in my highschool aged dd year at school, that is currently on police bail for threatening to rape a younger girl he knows. Who has sent inappropriate sexual texts to my daughter and who told one of her friends that as soon as he gets the chance he was going to rape her and that she would enjoy it.

For the last month he has been in seclusion, enters school after everyone else , is taught on his own and leaves early,

However the friend that he threatened to rape has been told that as of Monday he will be back in class as normal until it goes to court and that to keep her safe she is to make sure that she doesn't go anywhere in the school without someone with her at all times , when she asked them to clarify was told that she was to have one of her friends with her (so not even an adult ) even to go to the toilet,so that he can't approach her.

So the question is would I be unreasonable to go into school and insist that this isn't appropriate that if they are worried about the boys behaviour he should either have a teacher with him at all times or be excluded , and he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any of the girls in the school.

OP posts:
NearTheWindmill · 01/12/2013 14:53

Then it's time they started to speak out about it. These policies seem to come more from LA education departments and from educational research bodies than they do from government policy if you ask me.

I will don my flak jacket to go as far as to say that I don't think inclusion is working - it doesn't work for the majority, it doesn't work for the children who should be excluded and it works least of all for the small minority from troubled homes who could go either way in school depending who gets to influence them most.

BoneyBackJefferson · 01/12/2013 14:59

If the teachers complained about the inclusion policies you would see the SN board on here go up in very angry flames.

soapboxqueen · 01/12/2013 15:03

Inclusion does work but like everything not for 100% of the children 100% of the time.

This all comes down to money. LEAs do not have the funding to educate all of the children who may find that main stream is not for them. Therefore schools are left to cope.

turnaroundbrighteyes · 01/12/2013 15:04

Tbh I think that the girls are a lot safer if he is not excluded and spends all his time in public and supervised rather than hanging around the school gates or anywhere else where he is unknown.

Obviously, no one knows whether he would follow through on these threats or what has lead him to believe his behaviour is appropriate / amusing. Either way surely the school needs to clamp down on it in terms of punishment each and every time he behaves inappropriately, supervising him at all times and getting the right psychological help for him to try and teach him how inappropriate his behaviour is and find out if he has been exposed to anything that he shouldn't have been.

And yes, if my daughter I'd also suggest she never be alone for now, just to be extra safe. As well as the school supervising him.

tethersend · 01/12/2013 15:06

Youarewinning says it perfectly.

NearTheWindmill · 01/12/2013 15:08

I appreciate that Boney but it doesn't make the present situation right. There just are too many children in main stream school now who shouldn't be. They need proper, specialist help and there is a small minority of parents who need to acknowledge that their children need that help and that it needs to be provided in a specialist environment for the benefit of their children.

One size does not fit all - most particularly in education. I have two children - the same schools did not suit them both. Primary - brilliant for dd; not so for ds. DS's secondary fantastic for DS (he went there when he was 8 and had 10 very happy years). It now takes girls in the 6th form - it absolutely would not suit DD.

The system has to stop trying to shoehorn every child into the same sized hole. It doesn't work and the teaching profession needs to start being honest.

soapboxqueen · 01/12/2013 15:15

nearthewindmill teachers don't set the rules, policy or funding. We just play the hand we are dealt.

namechanged51 · 01/12/2013 15:19

Had to name change for this.

Child (aged 11) at DS1's junior school sexually assaulted an 8 year old at the same school.
Head suspended him.
Head forced by LEA to take child back.
Head asked for 1 - 1 for this child as he was a danger to others and had been for years.
Head refused extra help.
Girl's mother removed her child from school.
Boy left junior school 6 months later.
Boy in constant trouble at secondary school.
Boy (an adult now) now in prison for rape and assault on police.

Heads would love to suspend such boys but are no longer allowed to. Please don't blame the school.

ShinyBauble · 01/12/2013 15:21

I would be terrified if I was a parent to a daughter at that school. How dare they warn the girls to not go anywhere alone? If I were you OP, I would give them information on victim blaming. They should not be under pressure to make themselves less 'rapable'.

If they are going to allow this horror of a person to stay at the school the onus is on them to make sure he is constantly supervised and kept well away from the students.

NearTheWindmill · 01/12/2013 15:26

Well I recall a meeting with dd's state school headteacher that precipitated dd's removal from the school. She raised herself up and said slowly and loudly as though I was an utter moron "Mrs W - this school has extremely high expectations about behaviour and there are no serious concerns here". How I enjoyed writing to her two weeks later (after a child was beaten up) and noting very politely that her definition of extremely high expectations were clearly very different from mine and clearly included assault, intimidation, fire setting and continual disruption.

I was delighted to be able to remove my dd from her school and myself from the web of lies and deceit that headteachers think they can feed the stupid parents who are supposed to swallow it hook line and sinker. It is not satisfactory. Even less satisfactory I would have thought for a school to lose a straight A pupil but they don't seem to care about that.

BoneyBackJefferson · 01/12/2013 15:29

nearthewindmill

The teaching profession complained before inclusion was brought in, they complained when it was brought in, they have being saying that one size doesn't fit all ever since.

And all that is ever heard from people is that teachers whine and whinge and have an easy life and if they don't like it they should leave.

hermioneweasley · 01/12/2013 15:31

There s a world of difference between inclusion for SENs and continued inclusion for criminal and entirely avoidable behaviour.

Surely it woukd be a vote winner if the gov said that kids who behave in the way can be excluded without LEAs over turning? Who would object?

winklewoman · 01/12/2013 15:31

I know MN doesn't like 'my DH says etc" but have just asked DH headteacher, same age group, about this. Write to school, under heading " "Parental Concern Regarding Safeguarding Arrangements" . Set out the problem, make it quite clear the arrangements for Boy X , i.e. the ending of seclusion, is self evidently premature, given his request to a 12 year old girl for pictures of her naked, sexually explicit texts to your daughter and threats of sexual violence towards a third girl. The school is clearly failing in its duty of care towards the boy and other students, and that unless improved arrangements are immediately effected, you will be contacting the LEA Designated Officer, OFSTED, your local county councillor and your MP. You will allow the school 48 hours to notify you of the new arrangements during which time you will be withholding your daughter from school.

It is not up to you to dictate to the school how they should deal with the boy, but it is reasonable to expect that until until his anti-social behaviour is modified, he is not allowed unsupervised access to other children and particularly vulnerable females.

NearTheWindmill · 01/12/2013 15:35

Well dd's head wasn't complaining about it or admitting it was wrong. She was trying to given me an earful to complaining to her that it was unacceptable. Why couldn't she have had a sensible adult conversation with me about reality and about what the teaching profession was dealing with. Instead she chose to tell me lies and speak to me as though I was a moron.

I would not tolerate my child being educated cheek by jowl with the violent. Perhaps if a few other parents started kicking up a fuss the system would start improving. The system is wrong and it is wrong for headteachers to speak to parents as though they are dimwitted. The whole thing is dishonest.

Whistleblower0 · 01/12/2013 15:35

I think inclusion works some of the time. There are however a hardcore of children for whom mainstream school should not be an option. The boy in the OP sounds like one of these!
It's outrageous that the onus is being put on the op's dd to keep herself safe. That would make me very angry indeed.Angry
i agree with the poster upthread who said that teachers treat a lot of these kids as victims. It's a pretty shit state of affairs.

songlark · 01/12/2013 15:45

If it was me I wouldn't even let her go to school. Unless the school is prepared the do the right thing and exclude him there is no way I'd let her go there. Absolutely disgusting that the school is putting his needs before your daughters. Unbelievable.

BoneyBackJefferson · 01/12/2013 15:56

hermioneweasley

Criminal and violent come under the inclusion/SEN heading of Emotional and Behavioural.

jellybeans · 01/12/2013 15:58

YANBU Violent kids of any nature should be kicked out. Not fair on the other kids. That is what behavioural issues schools are for.

Whistleblower0 · 01/12/2013 15:59

Yes it does boney, which is exactly what is wrong with the whole SEN inclusion mantra.

ccsays · 01/12/2013 16:01

Agree with everything winklewoman has said. The school has a duty of care towards your daughter and telling her to have a friend with her is an admittance that they believe he poses a threat to her. (As well as being victim blaming bullshit).

BoneyBackJefferson · 01/12/2013 16:02

Whistleblower

Which is why teachers complained when inclusion was first tabled etc. they saw what was going to happen and were ignored and labelled as whiners and whingers.

tethersend · 01/12/2013 16:17

"That is what behavioural issues schools are for."

Except when they don't exist. And children with serious behavioural issues but with no statement of SEN can access precisely no education at all.

If a child presents a risk to other children even after all reasonable steps have been taken, then other provision should be considered. Except that there usually isn't any, nor any money to fund it.

In this case, (carefully risk assessed) tuition at home may have been appropriate; but very few schools or LEAs will fund this.

Money is why inclusion is not working.

soapboxqueen · 01/12/2013 16:33

What teathersend said

soapboxqueen · 01/12/2013 16:33

... or even tethersend

stupid phone

tethersend · 01/12/2013 16:50

I don't mind, soapbox- call me whatever you like if you're agreeing with me Wink