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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to want this boy excluded from school.

223 replies

dementedmumof6 · 30/11/2013 20:15

There is a boy in my highschool aged dd year at school, that is currently on police bail for threatening to rape a younger girl he knows. Who has sent inappropriate sexual texts to my daughter and who told one of her friends that as soon as he gets the chance he was going to rape her and that she would enjoy it.

For the last month he has been in seclusion, enters school after everyone else , is taught on his own and leaves early,

However the friend that he threatened to rape has been told that as of Monday he will be back in class as normal until it goes to court and that to keep her safe she is to make sure that she doesn't go anywhere in the school without someone with her at all times , when she asked them to clarify was told that she was to have one of her friends with her (so not even an adult ) even to go to the toilet,so that he can't approach her.

So the question is would I be unreasonable to go into school and insist that this isn't appropriate that if they are worried about the boys behaviour he should either have a teacher with him at all times or be excluded , and he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any of the girls in the school.

OP posts:
GingerBlondecat · 01/12/2013 04:18

there isnt even people to sit guard on all the girls

Put a minder on him, solves all the bullshite

I feel for you OP and your DD ((((((((((((Hugs))))))

BohemianGirl · 01/12/2013 04:55

I dont understand why he isnt being educated off site ie at the local PRU whilst this is investigated.

That would be normal, I;ve seen it happen when a child is on bail for assault - the reason given is to protect the other children from third parties coming looking for the thug/waiting outside the gates.

perfectstorm · 01/12/2013 05:15

Frankly if all concerned mothers kept their daughters at home over this, the school would have to act. No way is it acceptable for the girls to assume responsiblity for protecting themselves - that's the school's job.

Also agree you need to ask MN to delete this thread. It's about an ongoing criminal investigation and would be identifiable to anyone with a child at the school.

JustGettingOnWithIt · 01/12/2013 06:37

I doubt they're saying she's to have a friend with her to prevent him attacking her, I suspect she's to have a friend with her to prevent him speaking to her, ie interfering with a witness, if he's actually being prosecuted.

My ds was both accused of being gay beaten up and threatened with future gang rape (downloaded tbe) and one of the suggestions about how his safety should be dealt with was someone to follow him at a distance to act as a witness if they approached him. (They weren't seeking to prosecute or isolate as ds didn't agree he was gay, so no hate crime existed)

My view was also that the intended victim shouldn't be the one who had to be followed, but it seems to be some schools answer to these things.

bulby · 01/12/2013 06:58

As already mentioned, the school may have no right to exclude (I've had to teach more than one child accused of inappropriate behaviour). To give the the school the benefit of the doubt, it is very likely that that child will be 100% supervised and the accompanying to the loo thing is to make the girl feel more at ease.
You need to check on Monday that this is the case and if it is not kick up a stink until it is. Please do not go to the papers etc as this only risks any police case and encourages vigilanty behaviour from others.

teacherandguideleader · 01/12/2013 08:44

That is awful. I cannot believe the school are letting him in normal lessons.

We had a boy in school on bail once, but we weren't told what for - turned out that was a rape case. Don't think it filtered to parents but I remember female staff being furious that they hadn't been warned not to keep him behind alone etc.

I cannot see how that boy being in school is not a safeguarding issue.

sashh · 01/12/2013 08:53

That is appalling.

What if he attacks a different girl because the threatened one is never alone? Will that be dds friend's fault too?

This is police bail so the police control the conditions (I think, Vicar can probably tell you), contact them and say that you are worried and that you want his bail conditions changed.

There is no reason why this boy cannot be accompanied everywhere by a member of staff.

JennyOnAPlate · 01/12/2013 09:02

Do not accept what the school are telling you on this.

They have a duty to protect all pupils from harm, they can't pass that responsibility onto a 14 year old!!

JinglingRexManningDay · 01/12/2013 09:03

I absolutely agree about it having an air of victim blaming and not only that but the girl in question is having her anonominity compromised as she would need to ask for someone to come with her if she needed the toilet/return a book/go to the office.
And what of the other girls in the school? Its yet another example of girls and women having to modify their behaviour to prevent unwanted attention.

NearTheWindmill · 01/12/2013 09:50

It is totally unacceptable. You need to set out examples, for which you have evidence, of his behaviour and ask the school to respond to you in writing, setting out the reasons why he remains in mainstream school and how their management complies with their safeguarding procedures. Also ask who the safeguarding officer is at the school and ask for an appointment with them.

Behaviour that the courts deem to be criminal is not the same as a pupil breaking a school's behaviour code and they are not interdependent insofar as schools can take action.

I would want this boy permanently excluded for many reasons: threats, assault, intimidation, potentially criminal conduct and bringing the reputation of the school into disrepute. The fact that this has not happened illustrates exactly what is wrong with state education in this country. Heads, SMTs, governors who go along with it should be ashamed of themselves - they have lost my respect.

Pimpf · 01/12/2013 10:00

I was expecting a pfb kind of situation where a child had done something wrong but the op was over reacting. I was not expecting this.

Yanbu at all in anyway. Wtf is the boy not with an adult constantly?

God forbid anything were to happen, the friend would blame herself.

The boy should be supervised at all times and I would be going into the school absolutely fuming and demanding that this happen.

NearTheWindmill · 01/12/2013 10:09

Actually, I would also be minded to write and say that my dd would not be returning to school until the school had provided a written action plan in relation to her safety and had taken responsibility, in writing, in the event that she was harmed.

I would not just sit back whilst this happened OP.

UptheChimney · 01/12/2013 10:19

Gosh, OP, YADNBU

to keep her safe she is to make sure that she doesn't go anywhere in the school without someone with her at all times , when she asked them to clarify was told that she was to have one of her friends with her (so not even an adult ) even to go to the toilet,so that he can't approach her

This is what's so so so wrong with the school & the court's advice. That your daughter should have her behaviour constrained. The BOY should be the one completely under surveillance, not your daughter.

Effing patriarchy, basically.

bellasuewow · 01/12/2013 10:43

So will she get the blame and the onus is on her to modify her behaviour this is an appalling example to all the school children at the school that the girl is the blame. They cannot possibly guarantee her safety. He should be excluded no question. Please write to the school and contact police. Keep everything in writing so you can refer back to it. Good god what is the school thinking of.

ImperialBlether · 01/12/2013 11:17

Is this the case that was in the news recently?

JohnnyBarthes · 01/12/2013 11:19

Is it possible that this boy isn't actually guilty?

ZombieMojaveWonderer · 01/12/2013 11:21

Change schools! I just couldn't stand knowing this piece of shit was anywhere near my daughter and would have to change schools! Better to be safe than sorry IMO.

ImperialBlether · 01/12/2013 11:21

Are you in Scotland, OP? I'm sure I've read about this in the national news recently.

optimusic · 01/12/2013 11:27

I would contact the HT. I would do this is writing. I would ask how letting him back into the main school was safe guarding all the students in their care. I would ask how it is acceptable to tell the victims and another potential victim to not be alone. What about all the other girls? What if he decides to target one of those instead, who aren't constantly with someone? I would be asking why the girls have to change their behaviours, when they are the victims. He is to blame and it is him that should be monitored constantly. I would want to know why it is deemed acceptable to put the girls in such a vulnerable situation, and have they even thought about what happens if it all goes wrong and he assaults one of the students. What about the impact on the friend who fails to protect the other from an attack.

I would CC in the governors as well to get their reaction.

I would CC in the LEA as well to get their reaction.

I would CC in the Social services department.

I would also put in the letter that you have contacted the police and victim support to get advice from them as well. The letter would include a time frame of how long you would expect a response.

I would do it in writing so that no-one can deny you raised any of these concerns.

I would not contact the papers at this point. If the stance is well tough shit, then, I would withdraw my dd at this point and advice all the parents of female students to do the same. And at this point I would also be seeking legal advice.

zatyaballerina · 01/12/2013 11:27

This is outrageous, he's a risk to every female, not just the ones he's threatened, it's only a matter of opportunity. He should not be allowed at school, for the school to insist he remains they should at least have the decency to safeguard other pupils (and teachers) safety by providing a chaperone, one strong enough to physically restrain him if he does try to attack someone.

Get a group of parents together and turn up at the heads office. I would hound the headteacher and board until appropriate action is taken.

Mushypeasandchipstogo · 01/12/2013 11:53

Agree with Zaty get a group of parents together, seek legal advice and would definitely keep DD off school until this is resolved. Just to point out that sometimes it is only the headteacher who is aware of the circumstances of cases like this and most of the classroom teachers (and parents) will have no idea as to what is going on.

sashh · 01/12/2013 12:02

JohnnyBarthes

He could be not guilty of the the original charge, but he has threatened to rape another girl. He has also sent the text messages.

Isn't that enough for the school to be concerned?

But this is rape we are talking about.

I have seen people post AIBU about something done/said at school and answers along the lines of 'are you sure'? Do you think your child is confused?

I don't think anyone has ever done what you have and just dismiss something as not happening at all.

Until it comes to rape.

Threats of rape.

Sexual texts.

Then it is suddenly 'he could be Innocent' from a man.

This is what women / girls face everyday, report a sexual assault or a threat of one and a man will tell you it probably didn't happen.

friday16 · 01/12/2013 12:03

and would definitely keep DD off school

Why should their education suffer because the school is placing girls' right to be safe in school ahead of boys' non-right to harass them?

But of course, a mass withdrawal of children for a week will so fuck the school's attendance figures that the head will be looking at special measures anyway. That'll focus their mind. Boys' parents might like to join in the action as well.

It would be interesting (in England) for parents to write to the LEA's EWO and state, in terms, that they intend to withdraw their child in order to keep them safe, and that would like the EWO to meet with them to discuss the matter.

perfectstorm · 01/12/2013 12:41

JohnnyBarthes Sun 01-Dec-13 11:19:48
Is it possible that this boy isn't actually guilty?

Of the rape threats, to plural victims? Yes, of course - they could both be lying. But OP has seen the texts he sent her daughter, overheard another girl say she was assaulted by him and that she doesn't want to tell the police because so many people are now coming forward she's scared she won't be believed, and there are seemingly naked images of a 12 year old he'd persuaded into sending them on his phone, along with his cajoling of her beforehand - so all in all, would you want this boy allowed to roam this school, while the girls are told to be cautious?

If I had kids there, boys and girls, I would be withdrawing them in protest and asking other parents to do likewise. The kid with 24/7 supervision should be the boy with such allegations against him. Not his potential victims.

perfectstorm · 01/12/2013 12:43

This is what women / girls face everyday, report a sexual assault or a threat of one and a man will tell you it probably didn't happen.

Yep. And it's intensely annoying, every time. Because it is statistically far more likely - FAR more - that it did, and yet it's also far more likely that guilty little shits will get away with it.