to not fire my cleaner? Or for that matter, to fire her?

[ViewFromThe4thFloor]

In the summer my partner's diamond necklace went missing. We searched high and low for it, to no avail. It was typically left on top of a chest in the bedroom, but sometimes other various places (i.e. no jewellery box) and we won't sure exactly when it went missing. It might have been missing for a couple of weeks before it was noticed as it's more of a special occasion thing. The cleaner who had been coming for about 9 months at this point was away at the time and I was using a temporary one sent by the agency. When it was discovered to be missing she was back so I mentioned to her that we couldn't find it. She shrugged and said she had no idea.

About three weeks later she walks in to the room saying "is this the necklace you lost?". It was. I asked her to show me where she'd found it and she took me to the bedroom and said it was on the floor behind some stuff, beneath the chest which it was typically on top of. It could have fallen there, but I am reasonably sure that I looked down there when hunting for it. I decided to give her the benefit of the fairly considerable doubt.

A couple of weeks ago my mum gave me an advent calendar for my 6 year old son. A few days ago he saw it in my room and asked if it was for him. I said it was, and that he'd start it in December of course and he was studying the numbers, etc. Then a couple of days ago I noticed that 22, 23, 24 had all been opened and the chocolates removed. I grilled him about it and he is adamant it wasn't him. In the past I've readily been able to tell when he isn't being completely honest. Clearly he could be making it up, but I really am doubtful. I asked him repeatedly and he was quite sure he hadn't taken them.

Today the cleaner came and went. 19 has been opened too now. I am not 100% certain it wasn't open before she came, but I'm about 80% certain!

And it wasn't my girlfriend; she doesn't like chocolate.

All in all none of the above is something I can be completely sure of, but I'm pretty dubious at this point. I don't want to put her out of a job if she's done nothing wrong, but I don't want her coming any more if she's going to be stealing valuable stuff or half inching inconsequential stuff whilst relying on the idea that my son can carry the blame!

What would you do? Should she stay or must she go?

No self-respecting 6 yr old would pass up the chance to nick chocs from an Advent calendar. Isn't it part of the curriculum?

The cleaner didn't nick the necklace. You mislaid it and didn't look for it properly.

Take all of the remaining chocolates out of the calendar and replace them with little folded up notes that say 'Gotcha bitch!'

That'll teach her not to steal.

ParentingFailure, sorry about your DH. Rest assured, if I did decide to let her go, as some have advised, I wouldn't tell the cleaning agency or anyone else, unless I had actual proof and as that is very unlikely it means I would say nothing.

gaggia, Cadburys.

Hopasholic, I didn't see the other thread of which you speak.

Oh your sad.
Why are you checking the calender so hard anyway. Children have to have alot of will power to not eat those chocolates once a day. I used to eat my brothers then close them back up.

Why would the cleaner bring back the necklace.

Tell your wife to look after her things.

Your poor cleaner whose a teenager. You sound a nightmare to work for.

ok veee123...

I am wondering if someone stole something of value and I was also wondering if she was helping herself to chocolate which was designed to be opened by a child on a certain day. The necklace thing was quite some time ago and she's still working here. I was very grateful to her when she found it. I've not questioned her about it, I was idly musing on MN what others would do in this situation.

Meanwhile I pay her more than the agency demand, I pay her when she doesn't work due to illness or holiday, I've never complained if she's late, not if she texts at the last minute to say she can't come, I make sure she has all the supplies she needs, she's allowed to help herself to drinks whenever she wants, if things are particularly messy I suggest that she leaves that room and I'll sort it myself, and for other cleaners who I've had over the years I have written letters of recommendation for college applications, given them lifts, paid them for babysitting, given them unwanted children's clothes for their own kids, made sandwiches, given Christmas bonuses and Christmas presents. All of which I think are just reasonable, decent, friendly things to do.

So I'm just curious, in what way am I a nightmare to work for?

I wouldn't sack her, you have no proof. A large part of my job is security and as much as you can suspect someone, they are innocent until proven otherwise. If she is stealing, she will eventually trip up and get caught. Until then you've lost nothing.

When I was a teenager I had a jar of sweets in my room and I eventually realised that our cleaner was eating a couple each week. I remember counting them before and after each time she came as was a bit miffed that the level seemed to be going down even though I rarely ate them myself. So can happen!

Carefully remove the tray from the box and fill the moulds with melted laxative chocolate. If she spends most of her shift on the shitter with ring sting then pooooow! Its her. Not that you can ever admit that you tricked her but you'll feel like Mr Smuggy Smuggson who lives at Smug villas in Smugtown, Smugland SM46 1ND. She didn't take the necklace though. Your mrs lost the original and had to wait a while fir H.Samuels to restock them. Then she was all like "Darling! Look what Chantelle found when she was bottoming the cupboards! Well done Chantelle. Now come along the diet coke won't drink itself!"

Appreciate your dilemma, view! For all the people saying it has to be your child who tucked into the advent calendar, I'm certain 99% of the time it would be. However, Fwiw, when I was living in a flat share with 2 other professional women, our cleaner stole the chocolates from the advent calendar - no child to blame in that scenario! She admitted it when we confronted her. She'd also been replacing the choc with her old chewing gum...

Keep temptations out of the way...I am very old and still might purloin the odd advent or any choc in sight and tell you that my body made me do it after a load of denials.

Swap out the chocs for those boiled scandinavia sweets that are covered in salt. The coughing and sick making noises should tip you off fairly quickly as to who is nicking the chocolate

Lessons to be learned here I think OP.

First off is that anything destined for a child at a special event or time should be really well hidden to avoid discovery. It's just far too tempting for them.

Second, anything of value should be put away properly and put away immediately after use.

Third, no, I wouldn't contemplate sacking anyone for an offence I couldn't prove.

Incidentally, we've heard about your glowing reference as an employer, what do you think of your regular cleaner? is she good at her job?
Have you ever had any other reasons to question her honesty?

I really thought this must be a mick-take. If I were your cleaner, I would hope you fire me. It must be awful to work for you, but I doubt she can tell the agency she won't go to your house anymore.

You sound like my dh. Whenever he couldn't find something, it must have been the cleaner who took it.

I can't believe you think a cleaner would risk her job over 4 advent calendar chocolates! I also can't believe you would believe your small child when he said "Wasn't me."

With regards to the necklace - I once read about a type of amnesia which affects you when you are looking for things. You can be looking straight at it but you can't recognise it and so you carry on looking. The thing you are looking for suddenly appears where you have looked about ten times already when this type of amnesia wears off.

I can't find a reference to it by googling (which is annoying) but I don't think I'm making it up. It might be best to give the cleaner the benefit of the doubt as the necklace returned on that occasion.

I suspect your ds couldn't help himself with the advent calendar and has learned how to hide his tracks like I did when a nipper. But if it is the cleaner, it is only chocolate and I am sure you usually keep more valuable things safe.

In the meantime, keep an eye on your cleaner and just manage her properly like a good boss would do, which sounds like what you do normally.

Marigold you ol' sweet talker you make it sound like I have imprisoned the poor woman. She's quite free to not clean here - just as she did in the summer when took a month's holiday around the time I lost the necklace. I've already explained what working for me is like; I'm not exactly sure what else you'd have me do.

sisters, that sounds interesting but don't forget, it wasn't just me that looked and couldn't find it. It was my girlfriend, who was fairly distraught at its loss, and my temporary cleaner whilst the normal one was away, and indeed for a couple of weeks the normal cleaner herself. So 4 people had looked and couldn't find it. That all proves nothing of course, it was just the context for suspicion I suppose.

Some people have asked why would she return it? If she took it, which I am not saying she did, maybe she had a change of heart? Maybe she gave it to her mum and her mum said Christ where did you get it? Maybe she tried to sell it and couldn't. Maybe she was colluding with my son.

enrique, her cleaning is ok. She has various habits, like leaving glasses standing in the dishwasher so they just fill with the used water, making a bed by not putting the sheet on the base but just arranging the duvet and pillows nicely, putting adult clothing in my son's bedroom cupboards, etc. I figure these aren't really a big deal so I rarely mention anything - bottom line is her cleaning skills are fine. Clearly Marigold and veee will think I am a "total nightmare" to work for given that these thoughts even cross my mind, but generally no big issues.

I'm generally quite surprised - I thought I was maybe being unreasonable to not fire her, hence the thread title and that I'd get slated for not telling her to sling her hook. Heck I was expecting FTB (with the "F" for fire), but clearly I was wrong about that, so ta for the feedback.

My son, meanwhile, will be hung, drawn and quartered and when he complains I'll tell him I am NBU.

Viewfromthe4thfloor, if she is working for an agency she pretty much HAS to work for you (I'm not sure they would take her complaint of, "The man in the house is always looking at me strangely as if I've stolen something" seriously) and she is therefore imprisoned.

I think you should give her the necklace for Christmas. Go on!

To me it sounds barmy that you think you cleaner is nicking advent calendar chocolates!! I mean this has to be a wind up?! It's not like you can cover up eating half a advent calendar if you are a thief is it.

Our cleaner ate our children's Easter eggs out of the fridge this year! Oldest child was 3 and unable to open it, or lie about it...she also used to help herself to cake if there was any handy. Didn't mind the cake but was pretty cross about the Easter eggs ( during the days after Easter, I'm not one of those freaky people who can actually manage to save chocolate!)

I've had cleaners in the past and here's a few things I think may help going forward. Sorry if this stuff you've already considered.

Get a safe and keep all the serious valuables - anything involving diamonds, passports, irreplaceable sentimental value, etc - inside and keep it locked. You have someone who is essentially a stranger in your home on a routine basis - don't tempt fate. This is good for you and for the cleaner - I would not want to work in a house with diamonds unsecured - I'd be afraid of being accused of stealing them if they went missing.

Cleaners don't normally steal, but those who do generally go for lower-level stuff: cash left lying about (small bills, coins), older toys or clothes, one or two items of a big set that won't be noticed (like cutlery), etc. A diamond necklace is bigtime. I really don't think it was her.

Some cleaners might help themselves to your food (or Coke). You should be clear about what you provide - ie, here's the tea, milk, sugar and help yourself to the biscuits in the cupboard, but anything else is off limits. Or 'help yourself to whatever you like' - it's your home and you should make your rules explicit.

If you suspect your cleaner is stealing from you, you should ask the agency for a new cleaner. Or hire someone yourself so they get the full whack of money paid. But I think in these two cases your cleaner is innocent.

You sound perfectly reasonable, but you could probably do with better 'cleaner admin'!

I thought this thread had been pulled as the bridge was discovered to be unsafe by MN? Why is it being reposted with advent calendar chocs thrown in?

what does that mean, earnings? What bridge was unsafe?

I had a friend who had a problem like this. She didn't want to believe that people she had invited her into her home could be treating her like this, but unfortunately the re-sale value of tiny pieces of moulded vegetable-oil chocolate is so insanely high in some immigrant communities that she was forced to accept the truth. She recognised that her cleaner had a tough time supporting her two children and sending money back to her elderly parents, so she turned a blind eye to numbers 6, 17, and 21, but when 24 went missing (which was especially valuable, being in the shape of a bell, and slightly larger) she had no choice but to phone the police.

Her 6 year old son, tragically, had brown stains around his mouth and a shifty expression when the cleaner was cuffed and shoved into the police car by the head, which is a widely recognised psychosomatic dermatological reaction that some young vulnerable children can have to a sense of betrayal, and he was offered a course of counselling and was fine again till just before Easter, when the new cleaner couldn't keep her hands off the Lindt bunnies, apparently, and the son had the same unfortunate skin reaction

mildred . It's almost a DM article.

earnings, sorry to burst your super sleuth bubble but the other thread to which you refer is nothing to do with me.

Merry she really doesn't have to work for me and I'm not sure why you think she would have to. As I said, she was happy to tell the agency at 3 days notice that she wanted a month off, so I don't think she's scared of them, or me. Plus our relationship is perfectly cordial, I hardly look at her at all, let alone strangely. Talk about conspiracy theories!

I think it's interesting that quite a few people have said something along the lines of "There is no way on earth a cleaner would risk her job by stealing chocolate" whilst others have quoted incidents of exactly that happening. Takes all sorts I guess. For the record, I think of it as eating chocolate, rather than stealing it - it's the idea that she'd think she could get away with it and let a child take the blame that would bother me if it turned out she had been taking it - I'd buy her her own advent calendar if she wanted one.