To make a PSA about extended rear facing car seats

[purplemonstermunch]

and link to this page for more information?

www.securatot.co.uk/car-seat-useful-links

And to ask those in the know to offer up any other useful information they have about the importance of extended rear facing?

The P&C supermarket parking space threads attract hundreds of comments; this thread could actually save children's lives...so could I also ask you to give it a bump if you don't have further information that could help?

Thank you

Please don't assume that all posters who are discussing this and want to ERF are saying than anyone who doesn't is a ship parent. I forward faced my first: I wasn't and am not a shit parent and neither is anyone else who is doing the best they can with the information and circumstances they have.

I think you have to accept that some people are going to take offence whatever you say purple. It's clear to me and quite a few other people you didn't mean any judgement by your OP.

Actually it was bluecheese's post I was taking offence to. It was goady and ridiculous. I agree that ERF is safer, but it doesn't always mean its the best option for everybody, like us.

I'd rather not drive distracted and stressed because DS is screaming. It's just horrible and really upsets me. One journey we got a full half hour down the road before we had to stop, on a four hour journey.

We have a belted RF seat. Britax May-way. Got it from an online shop in Sweden as the one in Milton Keynes doesn't let you buy online - you have to purchase it in store. I don't remember why but the Elite II was not suitable for my car.

Pobble - re the screaming - I couldn't agree more. Important really sensitive to high pitches in an enclosed space - it scrambles my brain. Ill be ffi'ing (or not driving) if this one decides to hate her car seat (if I can find an ERF seat to fit our new-law-exempt car)

About 15 years ago, high backed boosters had just started to come into the shops. They were available but most people thought they were overkill - they put 3 or 4 year olds straight from their toddler car seat onto a booster cushion, sometimes not even that. That was just normal and considered perfectly safe. Over the nest 5 years or so, they became more popular, and then the law changed in 2004 (I think) and suddenly high backed boosters started to be stocked in much higher quantities and people would use them as standard rather than going straight onto a booster cushion (or nothing at all.)

Now actually booster cushions are still technically legal from 15kg (around 2.5 - 3 years on average) but because high backed boosters are more widely available they are seen as normal and most people use them in between the toddler seat and just using a cushion booster. Some people have chosen to skip the cushion booster stage altogether and keep their children in HBB until they can use the adult seatbelt alone. The perception has completely changed, first because of availability, and then because of legislation.

I think ERF will go the same way - now they are becoming more easily available, the "second wave" of buyers will be seen as overprotective by the majority but after a while it will become just another option and eventually it will be updated in legislation that this is required.

Oops, i meant side impact is deadlier, not more common. Did the research last year so mixed up the info but that is what it is. Rear facing seats are not great for side impact protection which is more likely to cause greater harm.

My DD would also scream bloody murder if our in rear facing. She can barely tolerate a car seat at all as she is not used to sitting in one. The last time she was in one she cried for half an hour and i ended up having to take her out of it as she was distracting the driver.

I have an ERF. It cost nearly as much as my car (seat was £280, car was £500) and had to be imported from Sweden. We have a big Volvo but even then you have to push the passenger seat so far forwards to get it in the person in the front seat has their knees under their chin which is very uncomfortable. DS would only tolerate it until he was 2, as he was desperate to turn around and would take the harness off so he could see which was very unsafe. He was much safer in a FF seat from 2 as he kept the harness on. I use the ERF for DD now (she's 18 months) and so far she is still tolerating being rear facing.
I do think they are safer up until 2 ish but they are not very practical in small cars, are expensive and your child has to tolerate being rear facing too, which not all kids will. The tethering ropes/straps can be an issue in some UK cars too if they were not designed for ERF. Our Volvo has ERF points as is a Swedish design but I'm not sure where you attach the straps in another make of car. You would need to make sure the seat was fully tethered to be safe.

Does anyone know if there is a rear facing seat that is easy to take in and out of a car and therefore could be used for taxi journeys?

I live in Southeast Asia and it is legal for babies and young children to travel in taxis without carseats (it's shocking to see people getting into cabs just holding newborns in their arms) :(.

I currently have DS in a high backed booster I bought from mothercare in the uk when we travel in taxis (don't own car) - complete pain to carry with me and taxi drivers hate me for it - but drivers here are pretty poor and I've been wondering about RF seats. DS is 2.9 but built like a noodle at only 12kg.

I only knew about erf from mumsnet. My DH is usually very sceptical about stuff like this, and at first said we didn't need one. However he did a bit of research (and his job is in automotive engineering) and rather quickly changed his mind. However, I found it a bit embarrassing when we first got one because it was tricky to explain that they were safer without looking like you are critiscising anyone who doesn't have one, so I usually just mumbled something and change the subject if anyone asked. After all, people just do what they feel is best for their own child don't they and do the research they feel is appropriate?

I have to say though my judgy pants were firmly wedged up my arse when I saw a friend on Facebook post a picture of her 6 month old in her forward facing 'big girls seat' although I was too chicken to say anything.

Extended rear facing seats are very different to infant carriers - the child is much more upright and higher up and I think ds can see far more than he would be able to in a ff seat. However, again I wold never say this in real life for fear of sounding like a dick.

Thanks Cornish, that's a really good, helpful point. Thank you.

Pobble and Purple, I hear ya! listening to your child scream in the car is horrendous and I did everything I could to stop it. You feel helpless because when driving you can't even comfort them, I remember an occasion when I was stuck 30 seconds from home behind a dust cart blocking the road. Ds was screaming and I just cried.

My child's safety is the most important thing in the world and I still maintain that ff with a happy baby and driver is a million times safer than erf with a screaming child and a stressed driver.

If people don't agree then that's up to them. I'm confident I've made the right and safest decision for our family

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone have an ERF seat in a 3-door car? I cannot see how an ERF seat can work in a small car.
I do find it offensive that people can spout that if you can afford a car you can afford an ERF seat (bluecheeseforbreakfast). I can't afford to change my car. Does that mean that I shouldn't have a car if I don't and can't afford the 'right one'?
Nevertheless, I am a big fan of EFR. I gave it huge consideration when choosing the next seat for our DS but at the time they were £300+. We'd need two due to our lifestyles. We eventually chose forward-facing mainly because of the 3-door car issue.
I think we need to remember that ERF is SAFER and does not mean that FF is unsafe. Personally, i'd rather see a child in ANY child car seat that is suitable for thewir weight and age and properly fitted. A recent 'child car seat clinic' was held at a supermarket at a nearby city and 83% of seats were incorrectly fitted with 5% being condemned!!! That is more worrying to me than every child under 4 being RF.

Pologies for spelling. Typing error.

APOLOGIES!!! (I will grab my coat ...)

:o junkfoodaddict

With one exception, I don't think anyone's saying FF seats are unsafe. What is unsafe is when people do things like a FB acquaintance of mine (old school friend), who just turned her bog-standard infant carrier around to face forward, pushed back the carry handle and strapped her toddler in using the car seatbelt. How can you even begin to tackle that sort of thinking?

junkfood I had my besafe in my old Nissan micra. I would put my daughter in through the boot. This was much less strain on my back than bending down to get her into the rear seat through the doors, a strain that would occur regardless of the seat direction. We did get a few strange looks, but my back was grateful.

Holly one of the Kiddy seats would be better - like a high backed booster but comes with an extra part which "pins" them in place. Suitable for 9-18kg.

www.kiddy.de/en/kiddy-child-safety-car-seats-baby-car-seats-child-seats-with-the-original-impact-shield-for-maximum-safety.html

You can buy them online because I got DS's that way. I don't drive and it was really easy to take in and out of cars. I don't think RF is because like Bubbles says you need "tether points" to attach the tether straps to which don't exist in most cars so you have to install them separately which a taxi driver probably wouldn't be pleased about!

They are also sold in John Lewis and I think Mothercare now. Halfords too probably - places like that.

Andharry
My friend posted on FB a picture of her then 5 month old DD in her new FF car seat. She was only 14lbs something at the time. She got flamed by some of her friends so she took down the picture because 'she didn't put it up for a fight but to show how cute she looked'. .
She claimed (and still does) that her daughter was too long for her infant seat because her legs were touching the back seat. I did tell her than that didn't matter but weight did and that she wouldn't be too long until her head was peeking out over the top. She recoiled in horror when I told her abour ERF as she said her 4 year old would break his legs in a crash. I told her that there had been no evidence to suggest this is what happens and told her that stats in Sweden proved ERF was safer but she claimed that she had read in a paper that a child had broken legs from ERF - amazing that she found this out after not hearing about ERF before I had mentioned it!
She did put her DD FF from that photo onwards and not to 'show how cute her daughter looked'. i periodically post/link things on my FB page about ERF and RF at the CORRECT WEIGHT/AGE on my wall.

Holly you don't need car seats for taxis in the UK either.

I don't have a problem with people trying to raise awareness....if you already know the facts then do feel free to toddle off.

It is true that we would all be safer in aeroplanes and trains if all the seats were rear facing....but they aren't.

Humans are odd.

I have a Kiddy Guardianfix Pro in my car, which has an impact shield. I am not replacing my car until she is unroadworthy, which she is not.

I stand by my original comment: ERF won't do a blind bit of good if the seat is in a car which is not compatible, which is actually a lot of cars out there.

Struggled to find one compatible with the cars I drive ( own neither, insured on them just) as one doesn't have isofix and too old to have it retrofitted safely and the other has storage compartments in the floor panels.

Also read in Which? That these seats were often not installed correctly which made them lose marks for safety and fall below the % rating of forward facing.

My baby hasn't been born yet but good there will be a solution for us by the time she needs to move up from the infant seat.

Too many people don't use car seats long enough either. My dd is big for her age and was the height requirement aged 9. I made her use it another 6 months then started to worry she was too tall and it would actually do more harm than good. It's only v v recently, height 145 and almost 11 years old that she gets to sit in the front ( can't disable airbag in one of the cars) I have friends with kids less than 130 who haven't been in seats for years, but I held into DDs and if I'm taking them out anywhere they have to sit in them or else I won't drive.

Thanks for the link Bertie. Looks like a more sophisticated version of what I have already but will take a closer look.

Visualise, thanks.

Well in trains half of them are, to be fair, but most trains are designed to go both ways.