To make a PSA about extended rear facing car seats

[purplemonstermunch]

and link to this page for more information?

www.securatot.co.uk/car-seat-useful-links

And to ask those in the know to offer up any other useful information they have about the importance of extended rear facing?

The P&C supermarket parking space threads attract hundreds of comments; this thread could actually save children's lives...so could I also ask you to give it a bump if you don't have further information that could help?

Thank you

The government are changing it though - there are new regulations out now called i-Size which supports rear facing up to 2 years or older.

The problem with changing the law now is that it isn't like the US where RF seats have been available for higher ages for a long time, it's pretty hard to get hold of ERF seats here and the vast majority of people would have to replace their existing seats.

So the new standard is coming in and I believe in 5 years' time that will become the law. However seats made to the new standard only fit in brand new, compatible cars so unless they make a law that every person with a child must have a car made in 2013 or later then I don't see what't going to be available for most parents.

I think the main problem with changing it is that the government are protecting the business of the car seat manufacturers and are therefore opting for the phased 'I-size' approach. Definitely better than nothing, and the new guidelines will tell parents that it's age not weight which you should look at most when changing car seats. The Group 0+ seats with an isofix base last ages on an average sized child. DS is 21 months, 75th centile for height, 50th for weight and still has room in his maxicosi Pebble!

I have taken a calculated risk to put my child in a FF seat. My child, my risk; until such times as the government deem FF seats to be illegal.

Each to their own.

YANBU to feel you are doing the best for your child.
YABU to preach to others and imply that they are not.

Bertie 'However seats made to the new standard only fit in brand new, compatible cars' isn't strictly correct.

Any car made must fit I-size car seats (ISOFIX is basically becoming compulsory),however the I-size seats will fit in older cars which have isofix (which many do have).

Also the claim they are "seven times safer" is questionable because that stat was apparently arrived at by comparing accidents in the UK with accidents in Sweden; but in Sweden the cars people drive are bigger and safer than in the UK and that is not taken into account.

Sweden also has some very questionable driving laws, it is fine to talk on your phone and text (!) whilst driving and most people do this on a daily basis.

There are also large wile animals that you may crash into in Sweden.

People do tend to drive bigger safer cars, if you can't afford a newish Volvo you don't buy a car if you have a family.

But lackadaisical you must see that it's a fine line to tread as there is simply not very much awareness about RF beyond group 0. I never mention it in RL with people for fear they will think I'm being preachy, but I live in fear of my friends with DC having an accident and I could have given them information which they might have chosen to act upon to keep their children safe.

Like I said it's a calculated risk. I do not intend to have an accident, and statistically, given the amount of miles I actually drive per annum, I am unlikely to have one so I feel safe in my choice. If I was commuting hundreds of milkes a week with my children in the car up and down motorways and A roads, I may feel differently.

though given that seats are only tested legally at 30mph and by Which at 40mph, who knows how they will perform in a high speed collision...

Lacka yes of course, but I don't think it's preachy to simply raise awareness of a topic. There's a big difference (IMO) between saying 'look everyone, there are these seats which are generally safer' and 'look everyone, you should rear face, it's better for your children and you're putting your children at risk by not RF'.

The same could be said for the car though DAISY.

I didn't use RF seats either.

The same can be said for the car, which is why I won't take my dc in cars with bad safety reports.

YABVU

Indeed, the same could be said of lots of risk factors in our children's lives; taking them on public transport, crossing a busy road with them, and of course the actual car itself. No point in a RF seat in a twenty year old banger is there.

We all do the best that we can for our children to the best of our abilities. Yes RF is safer and there should be more publicity about this, but it needs to be done in as non preachy a way as possible, or people feel judged for their choices.

Coming on AIBU to do a "public service" announcement as the OP has done, and saying you "fear for your friend's children's lives" as mrscog has done, is not exactly giving an unemotive, balanced view. It smacks of preaching and people don't like that.

There were some comments in a few posts upthread re types of accident and whether RF is more or less safe than FF. In fact RF is safer in all accident types and even more so in side-impacts. This was demonstrated in the only real-life accident study (Henary B, Sherwood CP, Crandall JR, Kent RW, Vaca FE, Arbogast KB, et al. Car safety seats for children: rear facing for best protection. Injury Prevention 2007;13:398-402.) to directly compare RF and FF (done in the USA, not Sweden, as there are not enough young FF children in Sweden to make the comparisons).

RF is also safer in rear-end shunt accidents. The only accident type in which FF would be safer than RF, would be the exact opposite of a frontal collision, eg reversing at speed into a brick wall, or reversing into another vehicle which is travelling in the opposite direction. These accidents would obviously be quite unusual! The first movement of a child in a RF seat in a rear-end shunt is still in the direction of car travel (ie forwards) and into the 'cradle effect' of the RF seat, which disperses the forces over the whole of the child's head/neck/back, rather than placing a lot of the forces onto the neck area, as with a FF child whose torso is held back by the straps.

RF seats however do need to be cheaper and more widely available before people have a real choice (without having to go to quite a lot of hassle to find out about and actually obtain a well-fitting RF seat).

I DID NOT say I feared for my friend's children's lives. I said I said I lived in fear of them being in an accident (of whatever severity) and me not even having imparted information I know which would enable the parents to make the most well informed decision. I accept I didn't phrase it as well in my post but I absolutely did not intend to sound pearl clutchy!

YANBU to want to help inform parents of the safety benefits of erf seats.

However, any parent who was unaware, has now switched to forward facing, and doesn't have a spare couple of hundred quid, is likely to feel judged, and therefore defensive, so aibu is probably the wrong place to post.

We have two Besafe Izi combi iso fix seats, and are going to upgrade to the newest besafe model as it means DD can stay rear facing for longer.

I haven't read the whole thread as i am on my phone so please let me know if this has already been said.

I did a lot of research about car seats lasts year because my parents are from a country where the slowest speed i have seen anyone drive is 60 miles an hour and usually drive between 90 to 100. Accidents are very common and very serious!

Taking my DD to meet family there is a scary idea for me because of this and so no amount of money is too much if it means having the safest car seat i can for the trip. We are planning to go next year.

After a load of research i came to the conclusion that rear facing is not at all as safe as has been made out. Side impact accidents are way more likely and rear facing seats do not offer the amount of protection you would want in a side impact accident. I am spending a lot of money on one of the newer car seats with the front cushion like Kiddy.

I'm in Sweden so we have RF but we don't have a massive volvo to contain it because I can't park. It may be safer for baby but it isn't safer for the front passenger. The front seat had to be in it's most forward, upright position to fit the seat behind it which means your nose is practically on the airbag.

Sorry about those who feel criticised - posted it because loads of people have no idea about it. If you know the facts and choose a FFS that's your choice, your informed choice. You can't make an informed choice if you don't have the info.

Hollow - could you point me in the direction of the statistics that side impact accidents are more likely to happen than head on collisions? I'd like to see that.

What is erf?

Hollow - I have seen awful crash rest images where a child in a cushion seat came out in a rollover. I'm sticking with erf and 5 point harness.

Babylon ERF is extended rear facing.

YANBU OP. If it wasn't for threads like this on MN I wouldn't have known these carseats existed. Mothercare have just started stocking the BeSafe and Britax ERF range and John Lewis have sold a Recaro model for a while so they're becoming more common.

Babylon - erf is extended rear facing.

X post. I agree Harry - I didn't know about extended rear facing until I saw something on another forum because I thought the British standards were top notch and wot not (I was wrong). I forward faced DC1 because I didn't know - I'd have been glad of the info on a forum so I could have re-evaluated and decided what was best to do for my circumstances and my child. I'd say something about thick clothing and seats too (because I had no idea about that until I saw a post about it) but people might feel criticised....

FF is safe. ERF is more safe.

I bought the 2way elite. £220. It was money that we received on the birth of DD but if we hadnt received any.monetary gifts, its £22 per month saved til needed. I dont think it is that much more expensive than a decent FF seat.