To want to keep my UK passport if Scotland votes YES in the 2014 referendum?

[SittingBull1]

If the majority of people actually voting votes YES in the 2014 referendum, Scotland will leave the UK. As Scots living in Scotland, will my family and I lose our UK passports? Along with a very large number of NO voters, my family and I will want to retain our UK passports, and I'm sure that a huge percentage of the non-voters will also want to keep theirs. I think that the UK government should offer to allow Scots living in Scotland to retain their UK passports. Is that unreasonable?

You have imagined that Spiritedwolf

Yup, you have completely imagined it, Spirited. There is absolutely no guarantee of what will happen if we vote "No". Both Labour and the Tories have promised to do away with Barnett (and take £4billion out of our economy) and there have been mutterings about making the NHS the same across the UK (so privatisation). It's clear to me that we will be punished for having had the temerity to have a referendum in the first place, and I'm far more scared about what will happen if we stay with the "status quo" (another decade of austerity and the bedroom tax) than if we vote for independence.

Completely imagined it? well I had been sure DH had mentioned it, so I looked it up and turns out I didn't just imagine it.

From HMRC: "Devolved taxation in Scotland

The Scotland Act 2012 gives the Scottish Parliament the power to set a Scottish rate of income tax to be administered by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) for Scottish taxpayers. It is expected to apply from April 2016. The Act also fully devolves the power to raise taxes on land transactions and on waste disposal to landfill – it is expected that this will take effect in April 2015, at which point the existing Stamp Duty Land Tax and Landfill Tax will not apply in Scotland. The Act also provides powers for new taxes to be created in Scotland and for additional taxes to be devolved.

For employees and pensioners, the Income Tax change will be applied through PAYE (Pay As You Earn). HMRC will issue tax codes to employers in the months before April 2016 which will identify those employees who are Scottish taxpayers, and employers will deduct tax at the appropriate rates, which may be higher or lower than or the same as those which apply in the rest of the UK. The definition of a Scottish taxpayer is based on the location of an individual’s main place of residence – further guidance will be available on this site in due course. "

HMRC on Devolved Taxation in Scotland
Scotland Act 2012

The idea that devolution would stop or be rolled back or anything under a no vote is, ahem... scaremongering. It is certainly not Labour policy. All the major parties at a UK level have said that they will look into ways of strengthing devolution. Labour has a working group working on their vision. I believe the Lib Dems favour a federal UK.

Scottish Labour are against the bedroom tax and believe that the Scottish government could do more to minimise the harm from it, but chooses not to. UK wide Labour have already announced they wil scrap the bedroom tax (for the whole of the UK) if they win the next general election.

I'd be really interested to see the respective visions for increased devolution from the LibDems, Labour and the Conservative Parties before the referendum.

It would help voters to make an informed choice.

BTW - I still don't see any detail in the Scotland Act that says how funding would be changed. The tax varying powers were something that the Scots voted for in 1997 but let lapse as it had been costing them to have them but not use them (which includes the previous Labour/LibDem administration).

....and these would be the same Scottish Labour MPs that felt so strongly about the Bedroom Tax that 10 of them didn't turn up to vote for their own motion against the policy?

Under the current constitutional arrangements, the Scottish Government has responsibility for devolved economic policy areas. However, responsibility for most important economic and social policies is reserved to Westminster. This includes welfare, employability, workplace relations, economic and financial regulation and consumer protection. The Scottish Parliament is responsible for just 7 per cent of taxes raised in Scotland. Even after the new tax powers of the Scotland Act 2012, this figure will only increase to around 15 per cent

I do wonder if I read the whole of the white paper will I find what the costs are of setting up a Scottish HMRC, DWP, DVLA, BBC, Passport Office, Customs, Diplomatic service, Intelligence Agency and the like...

You have to remember that Scotland already has a lot of this infrastructure, also Scotland is entitled to a share of UK assets upon independence.

not to mention the money being spent now on working on the case for independence and running the referendum. No doubt this will employ a lot of people, but it is a cost which could otherwise have been spent on things we don't already have

(From Wikipedia, apologies)

In the original 2010 Draft Bill, the Scottish Government proposed that there would be a designated organisation campaigning for a Yes vote and a designated organisation campaigning for a No vote, both of which would be permitted to spend up to £750,000 on their campaign and be entitled to one free mailshot to every household or vote in the referendum franchise. There was to be no public funding for campaigns. Political parties were each to be allowed to spend £100,000.[16] This proposed limit on party spending was revised to £250,000 in 2012.[41]

In 2013, the Scottish Government agreed to new campaign funding regulations proposed by the Electoral Commission. The proposals will be in effect for the 16-week regulated period preceding the poll. The proposals allow for the two designated campaign organisations to spend up to £1.5 million and for political parties to have an individual limit determined by their performance in the 2011 Scottish election.[40]
According to the Scottish Government's consultation paper published on 25 February 2010, the cost of holding the referendum was "likely to be around £9.5 million", mostly spent on running the poll and the count. Costs would also include the posting of one neutral information leaflet about the referendum to every Scottish household, and one free mailshot to every household or voter in the poll for the designated campaign organisations.[16] As of 2013, the projected cost of the 2014 referendum is £13.3 million.[42]

Dh says he is going to talk to ds (a very intelligent and politically aware 13 year old) before making his final decision how to vote as he says the result will have a far greater impact on him than on us.

the rUK offers dual nationality.

Why do you suspect that you as a citizen would lose it because of where you live? see www.gov.uk/government/publications/dual-citizens for an authoritative answer.

Itsallgoingtobefine - at least no-one on this thread (iirc) has made silly comments about the "cost of setting up a separate health service" and "is Scotland going to pay us for the hospitals and schools we built with our money?" and suggested that we would have to fire and re-hire all the doctors, nurses and teachers if we were to become independent which is what I have seen on some of the BBC discussion threads

although some people on previous MN threads did have to be educated about the existence of a separate health service, judicial system and education even before devolution

Interesting article from Business for Scotland re asset sharing and how it will work.
www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independence-will-generate-a-109000000000-asset-windfall-for-scotland/

FannyFifer from its own blurb, "Business for Scotland* was founded by 6 business owners and directors (one of whom then describes himself as a "manager"), has around 900 members, and describes itself as independent and political party neutral, yet on its homepage has a photo entitled "Standing Room Only 69 business people attending the Glasgow Launch" of people holding "Yes" signs.

Yet more propaganda. This is becoming very tedious. How stupid do you think people are?

Some of the ignorance spouted on (for example ) the Radio 2 Facebook page (Jeremy Vine's show yesterday, which people are still commenting on) is truly mind boggling . Fortunately, almost none of them will be voting.

My continued and perhaps naive hope is that people will use their vote in an informed way and not just because they are "scared of a bogeyman" - whether that be "the English" or "the nasty Tories" or "nasty Alex Salmond" or "we're too small/poor". It's too important a decision.

Yet you support your husband listening to a thirteen year old?

LessMissAbs - you can be a Yes supporter and politically neutral.

There are Labour, LibDem and even some Tory voters who believe in Independence (I know some ) and there are SNP voters who will vote No.

Itsallgoingtobefine I showed that Scotland is roughly in the middle of countries population wise

Why does it matter so much what the population of Scotland is?

So thats the "too wee argument" covered by you, you have shown throughout this thread that you think we are "too stupid", now isn't it about time you brought up "too poor"?

Jesus Christ.

How fortunate it is that stupidity appears to be an individual thing, not a national trait.

How do you explain to someone who doesn't understand basic ratio and proportionality that 5 million is less than 65 million?

The point I was making, was that there are a lot less people in the UK and Europe, who are not Scottish, than who are Scottish. Therefore this trait that seems to developing in Scotland, of supporting Soviet style propaganda and pretending everything is wonderful, seems a little odd to a lot of people. And that includes plenty of Scots.

prettybird LessMissAbs - you can be a Yes supporter and politically neutral

I'm sure you can. The point I was making is that FannyFifer is trying to represent that rather small, Yes supporting group as being representative of the Scottish business community as a whole. When it is a small group of people with jobs in business and small businesses which have barely got off the ground who strongly for independence.

And I believe you are confusing political party neutrality with referendum neutrality. Not the same thing.

Plus, 73% of small business owners voted no last week.

Re Asset division

As a starting point, the division of UK physical assets should be on a geographical basis. Financial assets and liabilities should be divided by share of population.

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201213/ldselect/ldeconaf/152/15204.htm

lessmissabs I have just read the article fannyfifer linked to about the division of assets. Which points in particular do you believe are incorrect?

By the time the vote comes around, he will be 14 - and yes, his views even now are much more informed and articulate than some of the guff being spouted on on the Radio 2 fb. The "reasoned" comments were outnumbered by the bile and ignorance (on both sides).

I respect my ds' opinions even if I don't always agree with him - don't you respect yours? - so I do fully support dh listening to what he has to say.

It may or may not change dh's mind as to the way that he votes - but I respect him for saying he will have the discussion.

As for Gary H Sutherland, prominent member of Business For Scotland. He owns a business called Employ Easily HR Services Ltd., which promises "Employ Easily provides employers with direct access to qualified UK Employment Law Advice"

Whilst his own business blurb ignores the distinction between Scots and English law, and doesn't promise to provide Scots lawyers to its Scottish clients, whats more worrying is that it doesn't actually mention providing a qualified lawyer at all. And its a limited company, which means if it makes a mess of things and goes bust, it can simply close with limited liability to its creditors. Solicitors are not allowed in Scotland to operate as limited liability companies for this reason and hold professional indemnity insurance.

That is not relevant. I ask you again, which points in the article do you disagree with?

lessmissabs : you specifically mentioned "political party neutral" in your post, with the inference that Business for Scotland wasn't. Hence why I clarified the point.

I agree - the organisation is not "referendum neutral" but I don't think it claims to be.