To want to keep my UK passport if Scotland votes YES in the 2014 referendum?

[SittingBull1]

If the majority of people actually voting votes YES in the 2014 referendum, Scotland will leave the UK. As Scots living in Scotland, will my family and I lose our UK passports? Along with a very large number of NO voters, my family and I will want to retain our UK passports, and I'm sure that a huge percentage of the non-voters will also want to keep theirs. I think that the UK government should offer to allow Scots living in Scotland to retain their UK passports. Is that unreasonable?

I take your point re Mr Taylor's donations are not connected, perhaps you're right about it being a smear. But why does a man who does not live in Scotland and does not have a vote in the indyref seek to influence the outcome? Of course, he could just be a benevolent sort of a chap. ;)

Sorry forgetmenots, I was responding to It'sallgoingtobefine at 16:16. Should have made that more clear.

Humpday, if you're detecting some desire for a "socialist utopia" in my posts, you're probably right, I personally am an old-fashioned leftie and would like to see a fairer distribution of wealth and so on. However, I also accept that if we vote yes, that might usher in an even-more draconian state than the one we currently live under. It's a risk I'm willing to take, because I don't think my fellow-Scots are mostly Eton educated millionaires that selfish.

"You can saaaaay I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...."

No problem merrymouse, just didn't want you to think i thought that!

Humpday I'm probably guilty of that - I do hope we can have a fairer Scotland than the one we currently have but I think independence could well be fairer on everyone in the UK. I am a bleeding heart leftie but I don't for a minute think we are getting a socialist state, we'd be getting a new democracy and the variables that brings.

But why does a man who does not live in Scotland and does not have a vote in the indyref seek to influence the outcome?

Said man runs oil company, yes? Says something about the oil industry's thoughts on independence.

SittingBull They would mostly be much better paid elsewhere and no sensible boss would complain about them travelling long-distance to work by first class rail so that they could get some work done instead of reading a book, listening to music and enjoying the varied company of the majority in second class

I agree with much of what your write, but this - a resounding no! The quality of many MSP is unbelievably woeful. To watch and listen to them debate is often likened to a bunch of unruly schoolchildren, and for good reason. I cannot see most of them working in the professions, or running a successful business. Most of them would be second rate at any career and so many didn't actually have one, but started off as political aids, trades unionists and local councillors, with the odd journalist and failed teacher. I realise you can't have a parliament full of business leaders, doctors, nurses and so on, but I would feel a little more comfortable having a slightly higher number of erudite, intelligent, well educated people on it than presently. If they had a minimum educational requirement of 2 "A"s at Higher, that would rule nearly all of them out!

I really cannot think who on earth would pay them better elsewhere though I suppose there are plenty of overpaid council jobs with remarkably lowly qualified individuals in them going around.

I actually once worked in a small department run by a man who went on to be an MSP. He used to condone persistent absenteeism and sexual harassment. He wasn't a nice man, but he was a political one, and very clever not to say or do anything that could come back on him. Which meant he achieved next to nothing.

Re secret committees, I would imagine that almost every organisation has secret committees, and there are good procedural reasons for doing so

We are not talking about almost every organisation but a parliament! And every other parliament in the civilised world has a second chamber, as a check and a balance on that parliament. The Scottish Parliament has a tendency to passing very controlling legislation as secondary legislation which is never debated before the full house but which can have huge effect on people's day to day life. It is Soviet in nature.

forgetmenots I am a bleeding heart leftie but I don't for a minute think we are getting a socialist state, we'd be getting a new democracy and the variables that brings

Most likely to be a highly divisive democracy with low voter turnout and poor social mobility, but incredibly preachy about how lefty and better than other countries it is? (a bit like now really but more smug?)!

Don't have time to go through all the MSP's previous jobs, but there is a lot of diversity in the Scottish Parliament.

Qualifications do not always make someone more intelligent.

I'm still puzzled by this " fairer, more equal" utopia that is going to be created.

Sorry, but as I've been told it doesn't mean higher taxes, redistribution of wealth and compulsory acquisition of land , what does it involve?.( although the latter actually is on the land reform agenda)

I'm not trying to wind the yes lot up. I genuinely have no idea what you're on about.

I'ld just like to say this has been an enlightening thread and very helpful.

Caitlin have a look at
scottishcommonweal.org/what-is-common-weal/

It compares what could happen in scotland, with what currently happens in WM - it is just one vision, but quite an interesting one, quite heavily based on Scandinavian countries.

And I for one think taxes should go up, society as a whole puts more in, society as a whole gets more back.

It won't mean higher taxes, because iScotland will be a far wealthier country than we are now. I know many have fallen for the lies about how we're subsidy junkies living off England, but in fact we contribute more than we take out, and have done for about 30 years. If we're not sending all of our oil revenues, VAT and corporation tax south of the border we can choose how to spend them, and if we choose to spend some on better benefits for our poorest, so be it. Then there's the new oil boom in the north, a possible boom in the west, more jobs being created... Is that wealth redistribution?

And yes, there will be compulsory acquisition of land, so that our rural communities can have a bit of security in tbeir own homes. But it'll be purchased, not stolen.

But those are just more coulds and shoulds, OldLady, with a fair amount of party-specific policies thrown in.

Be realistic. no one on either side can say if you vote x then Scotland will be y in z years time.

What you can say is vote no and maintain the status quo and have many critical things controlled by Westminster for better or for worse.

Or you can say vote yes and then scots can decided their own future, be in control of their own spending for better ornworse.

FannyFifer Don't have time to go through all the MSP's previous jobs, but there is a lot of diversity in the Scottish Parliament. Qualifications do not always make someone more intelligent

Indeed they do not, but a lot of jobs require them. I do not think MSPs should be exempt.

However, in the spirit of your statement, I did ask my now MSP a few questions when he canvassed me. One of those questions was "How is legislation enacted?" He didn't know ie he couldn't describe the process of a bill being put before parliament and passing into legislation, and the stages in between. I do not think he actually knew the word "bill", although he seemed to recognise it a little when I prompted him.

His previous experience was an Arts degree, parliamentary aide to MP and then straight to Holyrood at age 33.

I don't see what's "could or should" about us retaining our own revenues after a yes vote?

I'm still puzzled by this " fairer, more equal" utopia that is going to be created

So am I, but following FannyFifer and Sitting Bull 's comments, I think it means that thick uneducated people get to tell the rest of us what to do in parliament and a few of them get to travel by First Class Rail?

Sorry, but as I've been told it doesn't mean higher taxes, redistribution of wealth and compulsory acquisition of land , what does it involve?.( although the latter actually is on the land reform agenda)

There are actually two current cases of compulsory community buyouts at the moment.

Cross points, sorry. That was to your common weal link. The revenues post is coming, don't worry

LessMissAbs Why the vitriol? You seem to genuinely despise Scots and Scotland?

HumpdayPlus where is the list of MSP's previous jobs?

It won't mean higher taxes, why not?

because iScotland will be a far wealthier country than we are now. When and why will Scotland be wealthier?

I know many have fallen for the lies about how we're subsidy junkies living off England, but in fact we contribute more than we take out, and have done for about 30 years. But public spending in Scotland is much more than its revenue per person, plus there is a significant deficit.

If we're not sending all of our oil revenues, VAT and corporation tax south of the border you can't guarantee this either. Scotland will not retain all the oil fields, and several companies will move out instead of weathering the uncertainty. I know my DH's firm has made plans to leave.

we can choose how to spend them, and if we choose to spend some on better benefits for our poorest, so be it. No, the elected party will choose, and they will not necessarily choose to spend it on benefits.

Itsallgoingtobefine LessMissAbs Why the vitriol? You seem to genuinely despise Scots and Scotland?

You really don't like it when someone disagrees with you or challenges you, do you?

Maybe its something you and your colleagues are doing to put me off living in my own country? You are not doing an awful lot to convince me its going to be a very nice place to live in, as an educated, hard working person.

I'd prefer to have people in parliament who actually have a bit of "real life" experience, in order to better represent constituents. Some politicians should be ultrabright, and well-educated with degrees and all, some should come from working class backgrounds, and yes, including car salesmen. How well do you think Etonites actually understand what it means to be young today, not of Uni "quality", having left school at 16 with minimal qualifications and working in a zero-hours contract on NMW? That zero-hours contracts even exist is a blight on the whole country, an offense to any sense of fairness extant, and my personal "first up against the wall" candidate.

Apols for the rant.