to think potty training shouldn't be this bad...

[toiletturmoil]

I know there's a sub-section on this and I've tried posting in there but I need the traffic, I'm absolutely at the end of my tether with this and starting to worry that something is seriously wrong and need some advice.

My dd is 2 years and nearly 10 months. For about seven or eight months I've been gently coaxing her to use the pot but without much real strategy or coercion, I basically took the view that she would show some interest when she was ready and I didn't want to turn her off it by pushing it too hard.

About two months ago, in consultation with my childminder (she's with her five days a week so this is important) we decided to step it up a bit. When she's at home with me and my DH she absolutely refuses to go anywhere near the pot or the toilet seat. Any attempt to put her on it leads to a massive fit of screaming and crying and eventually she normally starts to throw the pot.

I'm told that when she's with the CM she will sit on the pot quite happily but never produces anything and typically holds wee in until she is put back into nappies at which point she will let go. Because she's so reluctant to go on the pot I've been reluctant to push too much at home and have not been forcing the issue for fear of traumatizing her.

About a week ago my CM took me aside and gently but forcefully said we need to get tough with her, other children younger than her are progressing faster and they are getting moderately worried about it.

So we've started enforcing a period of forced sitting on the potty in the morning and evening before she goes to the CM and at weekends. And its gone down so badly. Massive tantrums, tears, throwing the pot etc etc.

I know its not supposed to be a walk in the park but I was expecting there to be some progress by now and I'm quite worried. I cannot think of anything that has happened to traumatize her and make her fearful of the potty. But I'm starting to wonder what happens to kids who just won't ever learn...

My dd is in other ways quite bright (I know all mums say this but its backed up by what everyone else says) and well adjusted, her language skills are fine and she doesn't have any behavioural issues that we've noticed. Its just this.

Please someone tell me this will end.... and that its not just me.

Oh dear that sounds really stressful all round. I think this idea of 'forced sitting' could be really counterproductive. Why not just back off a bit and leave it until its not such an emotive issue? Every child proceeds at different speeds and turning it into a power struggle sounds like it will backfire. She's not even 3 yet so I am a bit surprised at the CM TBH. If you really want to keep trying now, might it be possible to make sitting on the potty a fun time for her? My DS loved taking selfies on my phone, or I read from a selection of new books to him, or he got to pop bubble wrap (one of his favorite things ever!) Potty training was not quick or easy for us either, but that helped a bit.

Your childminder is giving you bad advice. Carry on this way and I think you could find yourself with a real problem. Your dd is still little, lots of children are in nappies way past their 3rd birthday. Both of my children potty trained themselves - ds at 3.4 ( I learned my lesson the hard way with ds after wasting a year of our loves trying and failing to potty train him I put him back in nappies at 3. 4 months later he woke up one morning, announced he would be wearing pants and never peed or pooed in them again). Dd trained herself at just 22 months because she hated wearing nappies).
Children are ready to do things at different times. Your dd may be 'behind' the other children the child minder knows wrt potty training but I'd bet she is ahead on other things.
I would ask dd if she would like to wear nappies or pull ups and don't mention the potty or toilet again for 2 or 3 months. Tell your child minder to do the same.

I really stressed my DS and myself out the first time I tried potty training him. He wasn't ready and it was a nightmare and he ended up constipated!

I gave up at that point and decided to leave it a while.

Just before his third birthday he turned to his CM and said "don't want to wear nappies anymore, want to wear pants" and that was that....in pants he was.

Maybe leave it a while and wait till she is obviously ready. She is your DD and it really is not up to your CM to decide it is time to potty train her, it is up to you.

So YANBU but your CM is.

DS trained in just a few days when he was 3.8. He wasn't ready or willing any time before that. Your CM is barking, quite frankly. Please do not firce your DD. That is a syre way to lenghten the time she will spend in nappies, as any expert will tell you..

Your CM should not be putting you in this situation.

Put the potty and toilet seat away, don't mention it and de- stress over the whole thing from today. She won't stay in nappies for ever, lots of children don't train until after they are 3. Who cares if younger DC are trained already?

I bet if you all back off, it won't be long until she is asking to do it herself.

ocelot41 yes I've tried that, up to a point. The major difficulty I have is that I work full time and when I'm not working I'm usually having to run around like a mad thing to get stuff done that I can't do when I'm at work, usual story....

I just don't really know where exactly to draw the line, if you know what I mean. Instinct tells me that forcing a child to do something physically is counterproductive but the laissez-faire approach isn't working either. She clearly understands what its all about because she sees other children at nursery doing it but for whatever reason has decided its not for her. The CM says that she will routinely sit on the pot for periods of up to 45 minutes, remain dry and then wee all over the floor within seconds of standing up.

So how long do I force her to remain on the pot if she wants to get off? a minute? five minutes? 10?

Given that I have to work (as does my DH) for financial reasons there's never going to come a time when I can devote sustained attention to this and I'm generally worried that she will start primary school without having been toilet trained.

Do not force your DD.

Get some books about toilets and read them to her.

Let her in the bathroom when you go.

Have you thought about a step and toddler seat instead of a potty. DD would never use a potty but was fine on the toilet.

On the bright side if she is holding it in and then letting go in nappy she obviously has control.

I wouldn't normally advocate bribery, but can be useful for potty training. 3 x chocolate button for poo in toilet, 1 for wee.

Your childminder needs to back off tbh. My dd3 was like this. Would literally go mental at the slightest hint of the potty. She would hold it in for hours until I put a nappy on her. She is also very smart and had no other issues. She just didn't want to use the potty. Then in July she came through one morning and informed me she wanted to wear pants like her sisters. And do you know what she literally potty trained herself. She had never ever used the potty before that day. She just wanted to be ready. I also had advice from well meaning people but it was really stressing me out and upsetting me. Didn't help but my dd is really tall and has always been in the 98th percentile so folk always thought she was older.

I honestly wouldn't worry until a few months after her third birthday. She'll get there when she's ready and forcing her could really be counter productive

Thanks all... you see I've been wondering about whether the CM is pushing too hard and my DH thinks the same. So interesting that so many of you feel this way.

The thing is she is so stubborn I really can't see a way to advance this without forcing things a little.

Agree with the others. CM sounds a bit off, my ds was 3.0 and while I knew others who had trained earlier than him, it wasn't hugely late.

Ds was also scared of the potty, no reason for it, it was just something new to him. We read a lot of books, borrowed dvds etc about getting out of nappies. If dd has a friend/ family member close in age who uses the toilet already, hang out in the bathroom with them and "Oooh X is using the potty/toilet." After a while ds said he wanted to use the potty but actually going through with it was a bit of a hurdle. Went for bribery in the end, which was fairly painless to phase out.

She has obviously developed negative feelings about the potty, not surprising if she's being forced to sit on it when she doesn't want to. She's still very young, I think you need to stop completely for now.
If you carry on as you are I think it will take way longer than if you just try to relax about it. You really are in danger of creating problems where there wouldn't be any if you took your cues from her. I think your CM is completely wrong.

I think you should change your childminder, buy some nappy pants and leave her until she is ready. Forcing her to do something she is not ready for is not good and it is absolutely not worrying at 2.9 years.

Have you bought her some knickers?

With my DSes, many moons ago, we read books about potty training (I think there was one called I want my potty about a Princess), then we went out and they chose their pants and their own potty.

We did the bribery thing, too. A Smartie or a chocolate button and a star on a chart made them quite compliant.

If she is really, really upset by it all, I would wait until the Spring, she'll only just be 3, book a week of work and see if you can crack it then.

I second chocolate as a bribe - stickers just weren't enough of an incentive for my boys!

Forcing seems to have been entirely couterproductive. I think you should back off completely for a couple of months. And I do mean completely. You can't think of anything that has happened to traumatise her, but it is actually the potty that is causing the trauma. Seems crazy to you or me, but to her it is obviously very real. So the only way to alleviate the stress is to have a total break for a while. It is not as if the forced sitting (which I really wouldn't recommend anyway) has even produced anything.

Back right off and don't mention potty training to her at all for a while, and tell your CM to wind her neck in with it. Your daughter is still so little, and will train herself when SHE is emotionally and physically ready and not before. Please don't ever force her to sit on the potty as that way paves the way for withholding issues, including wee infections and constipation. In the meantime, let her follow you to the toilet, tell her what you're doing but don't push her one little bit. Take the lead from her. I'll tell you the difference here - I decided to potty train my daughter and it took 2 weeks, with a regression a few months down the line. My boys decided themselves that they wanted to train and they did it themselves in a day.

your childminder is completely out of line! All 3 of mine have gone from being in nappies to pants in less than 72hrs with no accidents. I have done this at 2yrs 9months (ds1) 2yrs 10 months (dd) and 3yrs 6mths (ds2) as I've waited until they are ready and shown an interest in using the toilet. I don't do potties, poo on plastic grosses me out.

I would step back from it all, put her back in nappies and don't worry about it!! Who cares what the other mindees are doing! I would rather leave it later, take a few days annual leave and crack it.

She's still quite young tbh, but with my ds I would squirt a syrine of water into the potty ( make sure he didn't see) then really praise him for doing a wee. It made a difference as he felt he had achieved something

I used smarties as a bribe, it was very effective

I also took a week off work for each DD and didn't plan to do anything or go anywhere that would be difficult with a child who needed changing 10 times a day.

If your DD is holding it in until she has a nappy back on then maybe you could try not putting a nappy on at all. Some children only get the hang of it when they feel that they're wet and sometimes in the beginning I managed to get my DDs on the potty mid flow which meant that they'd 'successfully' used the potty and we could make a big fuss.

when your DS is ready, you'll be able to train him in a week of annual leave, or at a push a bank holiday long weekend. it's only quick when they're ready though.

jinty the thing is in every other area my childminder is fab. My dd is really happy with her and the trauma of moving her would far outweigh this.

It's interesting that there's a consensus on here that she is pushing too hard though.

One thing that I worry about constantly is that full time child care is contributing to the problem and that there needs to be a consistent approach.

Both of mine have trained well past 3yrs old and both got it within the first few days, prior to that we had attempts that ended badly. We went back to nappies for a few month, no drama, and tried again later and bingo, no problems.

At 3.5yrs our Preschool were still expressing no concerns, says it was still well within the normal range.

Tell your CM to back off, go back to nappies and try again in the New Year.

I'd be wary about a CM who gave such poor advice and is making your DD sit on a potty for such long periods. I would consider whether she has any other odd practices/views.

I'd drop the matter entirely and ensure your CM does the same.

Then if you are home around Xmas you could give it a gentle go or leave it a couple of months, until your DD shows an interest.

She needs to be trained by Sept 2015 for school. That is the only target you should consider as important. What other children do is irrelevant. I know children who were trained before 2. Whoopy-do for them, but it won't be on their CV in 20 years time. It just doesn't matter.

And chocolate really works.

MY DS resisted all attempts to potty train him. As my DD was potty trained by 18 months, I started thinking about potty training DS from around the same age, but he wasn't interested and I got quite stressed and eventually gave up.

I've written about him on MN before - he basically told me at the Easter after he was 3yo, that he would stop wearing nappies when he went into the "big" nursery class in September. Sure enough, first day in "big" class and he insisted wearing pants and he never wore daytime nappies again.

It is much, much easier to follow your child's lead than to try and push them when they aren't ready. Your DD will get there in her own sweet time.

What everyone said. Your dd isn't even three yet, and clearly isn't ready. It's never going to work until she is.

Feel bad even suggesting it, as you said she is good in all other respects, but: are you 100% sure about the childminder's motives? Any chance that she might just not want to change nappies any more...?