Children on a school trip allowed to pet my dog... I'm bloody LIVID.

[HarderToKidnap]

Should I phone the school about this? Every week I walk up to a local cafe with dog and toddler DS. I secure dog to pushchair on a short lead, he tucks himself behind the pushchair and snoozes in the sun. DS and I have cake and tea and sit by window so I'm next to dog, who is outside.

Today lots of primary school kids were out on a trip going from shop to shop collecting money for something. They went in the cafe before me and they left as I arrived. I placed my order, turned round to look at dog out of window and there must have been ten or twelve children crowded round him stroking him. He was covered in children. Teacher next to them smiling benignly and agreeing with kids how cute he was.

Dog is ten year old toy breed, is very cute but also very very nervous of children and has snapped at kids before. I never let unknown children stroke him. I was LIVID. For on,e he could easily have bitten one of the children and then they would be hurt and he may be put down. For two, who in their right mind lets lots and lots of children crowd an unknown dog???? I marched out there, said loudly "he doesn't like children and they shouldn't be touching him without asking the owners permission!" I was quite sharp but not snouty. Teacher said "yes yes OK" without really making eye contact and shepherded them off.

Should I phone the school concerned? Or was my sharp comment enough? Dogs are left unattended outside shops etc quite often and really the teacher should never be allowing the children in her charge to touch them, let alone crowd them. AIBU?

Elsie, that made me laugh. I'm very sorry to have put the words "don't snap" instead of "form for snapping" in your mouth. I hope you recover soon from my heinous deed x

Yes OP call the school, tell them you have a dog that might bite children, that you leave it in a public place unsupervised and give them your address. I'm sure they can do the rest.

No, no, no, Giles. I wasn't asking to be defensive or to prove a point. My dog aside, I was asking because it's come up in the thread and it's interesting.

That's really sad Tulip I remember our old deputy bringing in his dulux dog (this outing myself as someone who knows nothing about dog breeds...). I loved it when he did.

I've read this thread and wondered if I've fallen into a weird parallel universe inhabited by the anti-dog brigade.

It is commonplace for dogs to be secured outside shops. Our local ASDA has a 'dog area' with a sign and a place where the lead can be tied to and the dog can wait outside. Similarly, if you're out and about with a dog on a lead, in a village, you have to leave your dog tied up outside a shop. Shops only let guide dogs in, not others.

Therefore, there will normally be a few dogs, tied up, here and there, waiting for their owners. It is commonsense to NEVER approach a dog that you do not know. You always, always, ask the owner. You do not pet a dog, however cute, that is unknown to you. I assumed everyone knew this (and I am not a dog owner and have never had a pet dog).

If you're sufficiently dozy not to know this and to approach a totally strange dog, then don't start whining if you get bitten or nipped. It is not the owner's fault if you approach an unknown dog. Nor should a dog have to be muzzled wherever it goes, unless of course it attacks at random, which the dog in the OP's post clearly doesn't.

OP - I would certainly ring the school and ask them to impart the basic wisdom to teachers and pupils alike, not to approach unknown dogs.

Don't be silly, OP.

Well, that would have changed the point and you'd have been justified in what you said. But I didn't say that, and so you weren't.

"So, as a discussion point then, should no dog ever be left unattended?"

No, they shouldn't.

How would it have changed the point? Whether they have form for snapping or not, they might have snapped if approached by a large group of children.

I'd rather not be misquoted, based on what you remember. That's all

It is commonsense to NEVER approach a dog that you do not know

Well, tell that to the three year who runs up in excitement, before mum can stop him/her, because the dog looks like Grandma''s soft-as-butter old pooch.

Tsk. These kids with no common sense, eh?

Public places have the public in them - some smart, some dumb, some little. Dogs that could bite or snap should either not be left alone, or be muzzled.

Elsie, when I write my book of your famous quotes I faithfully promise to cross check every one. You will NOT be misquoted again on my watch!!

Your dog had form for snapping, as you said. I have said (again you'll need to read my posts) that the teacher was in the wrong also, strange dogs should not be approached.
I'd really rather you didn't misquote me or read between the lines. Better to ask for clarification, no?

Personally I hate seeing dogs unattended. But I have known a couple of people who have had their dogs stolen, plus I don't think its fair on a dog to be potentially put in a situation where they feel trapped if a situation arises (using your situation today as a potential example, I have also seen a dog terrified and tethered outside a shop while two big off lead dogs jumped all over it). Ive also seen dogs cry and pace too many times to count while tied up outside shops.

I just think there are too many outside influences you can't control that may happen and its not worth the risk.

I do live in a busy area though, I may feel differently if I lived somewhere rural or quiet. I just don't think its fair on the dog really.

FFS, I can't believe this thread. Have any of you ever seen a dog tied up anywhere? It's pretty normal. ANY dog tied up outside could get distressed if surrounded by lots of children. This is a small, non aggressive dog tied up, out of the way.

ANY dog could bite or snap if faced with rampaging toddler. Should every dog be either never left unattended or muzzled? Not seeking to disagree, although I do, it's just not a viewpoint I've come across before.

Hettie - It is also commonsense to supervise your three year old and not let them run up to a strange dog.

yes of course, but in a case of a child running out in front of, or behind a car, the driver may well not be driving like a twat, they may simply have not seen them. Of course, we could then say that no-one should drive at all, which in the real world is impossible.

I suppose what I'm trying to (badly) say is that the end result of a child being bitten by a dog, whatever the law is, is the same - one, potentially very seriously, injured child.

I'm trying to think, if my child had been one of those children, and if they'd got bitten, who I would be more angry with - the teacher or the owner. And I must say, I think that it would be the teacher, for being so unbelievably stupid as to allow 10 children to mob a dog. The owner would doubtless have to have her dog put down. But frankly, that teacher should probably lose their job, they were 100% failing to safeguard the children in their care. At the end of the day, that teacher would have carried the responsibility for the children, not some random dog owner.

I should say I'm thinking this through objectively - don't have a dog, don't mind them, DD (under school age) doesn't like them so we avoid anyway.

Any dog that has always been mild mannered can suddenly turn if they are ill or in pain - they are very good at covering it up. I wonder how many who "just turn and bite for no reason" are actually in need of a vet?

Just because lots of people leave dogs unattended that doesn't make it ok and does not absolve the owner's responsibility if their dog were to bite. You may think that's unfair but that's the way it is in the eyes of the law.

"Personally I hate seeing dogs unattended. But I have known a couple of people who have had their dogs stolen, plus I don't think its fair on a dog to be potentially put in a situation where they feel trapped if a situation arises (using your situation today as a potential example, I have also seen a dog terrified and tethered outside a shop while two big off lead dogs jumped all over it). Ive also seen dogs cry and pace too many times to count while tied up outside shops.

I just think there are too many outside influences you can't control that may happen and its not worth the risk."

That, basically.

Also, the way the law stands your dog doesn't actually need to do anything to come foul of the dangerous dogs act, someone just needs to claim they were scared it was going to...and if you're inside a shop how can you prove otherwise?

I think that's EXACTLY the point Hettie DO tell that to to young children!!

Three year olds don't always do precisely what we say though, do they?

Op; AIBU?
Everyone; Yes
OP; No I'm not
Everyone; Yes you are
Op; You're not answering the exact question
Everyone; Answers the exact question asked and YA(still)BU

I think references to thick and dozy were quite restrained.

"Personally I hate seeing dogs unattended. But I have known a couple of people who have had their dogs stolen, plus I don't think its fair on a dog to be potentially put in a situation where they feel trapped if a situation arises (using your situation today as a potential example, I have also seen a dog terrified and tethered outside a shop while two big off lead dogs jumped all over it). Ive also seen dogs cry and pace too many times to count while tied up outside shops.

I just think there are too many outside influences you can't control that may happen and its not worth the risk."

Also in agreement. I think in the case of the OP where the dog had form for snapping and was very nervous with children, it seemed particularly irresponsible to me. And unfair to put his/her dog in that position.

No, you shouldn't phone the school. Unless you are willing to admit that your poor judgement contributed to the situation.

The teacher was wrong. And yes, children need to be educated about how to behave around dogs.

But you need to be able to see your own errors if you wanted a reasonable conversation. If I was the Head and you came to me 'livid' about this I would be both speaking to the teacher and checking if I could report you to anyone.