Children on a school trip allowed to pet my dog... I'm bloody LIVID.

[HarderToKidnap]

Should I phone the school about this? Every week I walk up to a local cafe with dog and toddler DS. I secure dog to pushchair on a short lead, he tucks himself behind the pushchair and snoozes in the sun. DS and I have cake and tea and sit by window so I'm next to dog, who is outside.

Today lots of primary school kids were out on a trip going from shop to shop collecting money for something. They went in the cafe before me and they left as I arrived. I placed my order, turned round to look at dog out of window and there must have been ten or twelve children crowded round him stroking him. He was covered in children. Teacher next to them smiling benignly and agreeing with kids how cute he was.

Dog is ten year old toy breed, is very cute but also very very nervous of children and has snapped at kids before. I never let unknown children stroke him. I was LIVID. For on,e he could easily have bitten one of the children and then they would be hurt and he may be put down. For two, who in their right mind lets lots and lots of children crowd an unknown dog???? I marched out there, said loudly "he doesn't like children and they shouldn't be touching him without asking the owners permission!" I was quite sharp but not snouty. Teacher said "yes yes OK" without really making eye contact and shepherded them off.

Should I phone the school concerned? Or was my sharp comment enough? Dogs are left unattended outside shops etc quite often and really the teacher should never be allowing the children in her charge to touch them, let alone crowd them. AIBU?

The problem is if the dog is left you cannot control things like other people approaching him. Children do seem to be obsessed with dogs - my 4 year old is always trying to approach dogs and I always stop her.

But please don't put me down

Harder, you've already said to the teacher that they should have asked permission before touching the dog.

Why are you so keen to ring the school to say the same thing again?

Are you hoping the school will say "oh thank you so much, yes, our teacher was foolish, and yes, our children are ill informed about dogs. You were right and we were wrong." It's not going to happen that way, so maybe take a deep breath and move on without the validation you seem to want.

Yup, could have bitten a child in this situation. Show me a dog who couldn't. He has snapped before so maybe I would be more nervous of him snapping than someone who's dog has never snapped (bizarrely, the fact he didn't snap when so provoked has made me think he's not as nervous as I thought) so was quick with a sharp comment. He is certainly non aggressive though, snapped twice through fear but absolutely not aggressive and not confrontational or into approaching people. Not that the teacher knew that, he could have been a professional fighting dog for all that she knew about him. It's irrelevant anyway because a dogs prior behaviour is not necessarily predictive of how they will react when crowded and surrounded by lots of strange children.

Absolutely, ring the school, let them know that one of their teachers has assumed that just because a dog was left unattended by a dog owner does not make them a safe dog.

Let them know some owners don't give a flying fuck about the well being of others and are prepared to leave a snappy animal to fend for itself just so they can have a coffee.

(Don't forget to tell them that your dog does/ doesn't snap depending on your mood/ how the argument is going and, most importantly, let them know that you are complaining for their own good because you are a responsible dog owner who wouldn't leave a snappy unmuzzled dog alone for a coffee)

I'm not "so keen". I've just said I'm not going to!

I'm still waiting for an explanation after that rather odd outburst addressed to me earlier, OP. Only third time of asking.

The teacher was being unreasonable (assuming it was the teacher rather than a TA or parent helper). You said your piece at the time, so I'm sure the message will have got back.

On the other hand, no matter how much you protest that you don't want to hear that you were unreasonable to leave your dog alone, you were unreasonable to leave your dog unattended, particularly if you already know that it snaps at children. Either supervise it or muzzle it. And if all dogs have the potential to bite or attack, then perhaps as a society we should consider whether all dogs should be muzzled.

Dogs are unpredictable- so are children. Just as your dog might get unexpectedly vicious, a child might unexpectedly run off from its parent , or walk past being loud or crying, or lie down in the middle of the path to have a tantrum.

Small children don't have the cognitive power to recognise that even a dog attached to a pushchair could be vicious. Dogs certainly don't have the ability to plan ahead for the consequences of attacking a child. So it's up to the responsible adults to keep everyone safe- the teacher should have done that in this case, but so should you.

To be fair to the OP, she has agreed to rethink her policy of leaving the dog unattended.

Continuing to berate the OP on a point that she has already conceded rather goes against the spirit of AIBU.

having read the whole thread, I do think the thinking of many of the YABVUers is a little flawed. Yes, legally the responsibility would lie with the owner - but that's not going to help a child who has not been taught, at home or at school, not to pet strange dogs, and ends up getting bitten or worse, is it? Similarly, if a motorist injures or kills a child who runs out in front of them it's their responsibility, but is that an argument not to teach children how to cross the road safely? Of course not.

Im glad you are having a rethink. For some reason threads about dogs seem to be highly emotional on mn - couple that with posting on aibu you must be a brave woman!

It actually doesn't sound to me like your dog needs to be muzzled in public, going by purely what you have said. BUT he does sound like he needs to be closely supervised at all times, which means not leaving him unattended and keeping a very close eye on him when walking (e.g. keeping him on a short leash when walking by children etc - toddlers have a habit of sticking their hands out to passing dogs suddenly, no matter how vigilant their mums are My own dd does it despite my best efforts! )

It's just not worth the risk OP, its for your dogs protection as well as everyone else.

I think you have already made your point to the teacher (rather rudely in front of her charges) so I can't see the point in ringing the school unless you think it will get her into trouble.

If people go to the dog of their own freewill then the responsibility lies with the them
not in law it doesn't.If it bites a child you may be prosecuted, your hound put down and you may be sued as well.

Can't remember your exact words Elsie but you said something along the lines of people are leaving their dogs outside because they dont snap and then "sighed". Missing the point that events the most mild mannered dog in the world who has never done so much as fart towards a human being could easily turn and snap/bite in the situation I describe. Previous mild mannered behaviour wouldn't be predictive in that situation.

Fair point, but to continue your analogy, wouldn't it be better still if people didn't drive like twats in the first place?

I wouldn't bet on the children not telling their parents about it, so it may be taken out of your hands anyway.

Yes of course there is responsibility on all sides but I think people have responded in the way that they have because of the legal position here - which would make it the owner's responsibility just as it would be a driver's if someone ran in the road and got knocked over (as someone said above).

If the OP has agreed to rethink leaving the dog then fair enough.

(THat was to MrsOkenshield btw)

Also, as I stated earlier up thread, I also have a nervous dog. And I agree wholeheartedly that there should be a greater education about behaviour around dogs.

It is my responsibility to teach my child how to behave around dogs. I teach my dc not to stroke dogs they don't know. Never to approach a dog tied up.

It is the dog owners responsibility to keep their dog under control. Tied up securely where i could pass without getting close to the dog i would consider under control. I don't expect all dogs to be muzzled.

Ooh, bad tempered, this thread.

OP, do ring the school. I'd keep it fairly low key, 'word to the wise' sort of style though.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ballymena-dog-attack-teachers-alaskan-2007786 Made me immediatly think of this.

If you can't remember then you should look it up, along with my other posts. That is not what I said. I didn't say they leave their dogs because they don't snap. I said perhaps they don't have form for snapping - exact words (form for snapping coupled with "very very nervous around children" earlier) Please don't put words into my mouth.

So, as a discussion point then, should no dog ever be left unattended? Previous behaviour aside. Any dog could snap or bite if a crowd of children approached them and were allowed the manhandle them. Or perhaps if other threatening (to the dog) situations occurred which were out of the norm. As any dogs behaviour in those situations could be aggressive, should they never be left unattended? Asked in a spirit of genuine enquiry, by the way.

So because any dog can turn under certain conditions that excuses you from KNOWINGLY leaving a snappy dog unattended?

Seriously forget being defensive ok , your dog will pay with his LIFE if something happens. That's what people are trying to tell you. Concentrate on protecting your dog rather than what other people do.

I too am glad you are going to rethink, however.