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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Children on a school trip allowed to pet my dog... I'm bloody LIVID.

299 replies

HarderToKidnap · 15/11/2013 12:38

Should I phone the school about this? Every week I walk up to a local cafe with dog and toddler DS. I secure dog to pushchair on a short lead, he tucks himself behind the pushchair and snoozes in the sun. DS and I have cake and tea and sit by window so I'm next to dog, who is outside.

Today lots of primary school kids were out on a trip going from shop to shop collecting money for something. They went in the cafe before me and they left as I arrived. I placed my order, turned round to look at dog out of window and there must have been ten or twelve children crowded round him stroking him. He was covered in children. Teacher next to them smiling benignly and agreeing with kids how cute he was.

Dog is ten year old toy breed, is very cute but also very very nervous of children and has snapped at kids before. I never let unknown children stroke him. I was LIVID. For on,e he could easily have bitten one of the children and then they would be hurt and he may be put down. For two, who in their right mind lets lots and lots of children crowd an unknown dog???? I marched out there, said loudly "he doesn't like children and they shouldn't be touching him without asking the owners permission!" I was quite sharp but not snouty. Teacher said "yes yes OK" without really making eye contact and shepherded them off.

Should I phone the school concerned? Or was my sharp comment enough? Dogs are left unattended outside shops etc quite often and really the teacher should never be allowing the children in her charge to touch them, let alone crowd them. AIBU?

OP posts:
DuckworthLewis · 15/11/2013 13:47

Fair enough OP, good to hear you'll have a rethink.

lottieandmia · 15/11/2013 13:48

OP, I don't think whatever other people do with their dogs is relevant. They may be far more irresponsible that you or have more or bigger dogs - that doesn't alter what the outcome will be for you and your dog if he were to bite someone when you left him unattended or with no muzzle. I think you should take people's advice on board because they are trying to help.

littlemrssleepy · 15/11/2013 13:48

Likewise feelingood you seemed to think the situation below was my fault. Any further comments?

"It was tied up immediately outside of the doors and we were on our way out. The nursery open onto a park area, not a road. My daughter was in front of me. You seriously don't think I should let daughter open the nursery door in case there is a biting dog that I don't know about tied up outside?"

lardydahdydah · 15/11/2013 13:50

harder. Are you being particularly thick?

How many people have told you not to vs how many people said to?

You have already spoken directly to the person involved.

diddl · 15/11/2013 13:50

The teacher was of course wrong.

And of course, should the dog have bitten, it would be the one paying the ultimate price.

Are either of those risks worth taking?

JustAnotherFucker · 15/11/2013 13:50

Feelingood If people goto the dog of their own freewill then the responsibility lies with the them

No it doesn't. Not legally at all. The responsibility is with the owner.

If someone walks into the road and gets knocked over who is liable?

The motorist will be guilty of careless driving at best. Pedestrians have right of way over vehicles. Motorists have to defer to a person in the road at all times. Even if that person is falling over drunk, the responsibility for not hitting them with the vehicle lies with the driver.

fluffyraggies · 15/11/2013 13:51

I advocate ringing the school.

Not because i would want the teacher sacked, or the children told off, but because i wouldn't it being allowed to happen again, on a different day, and a child then being bitten. I think a quick staff meeting going over safety procedures wouldn't hurt.

Who knows if this was a teacher, a TA, or a parent helper - who ever it was wasn't aware of the safety rules around taking children out of school, and they may not be the only one in the school who is unaware. Perhaps helpers aren't being trained?

The teacher/helper may have just agreed with the OP about being sorry and it being wrong, simply to shut OP up. Next time they're out with all the class they could do it again.

Original poster
HarderToKidnap · 15/11/2013 13:51

What other people do with their dogs is very relevant in this situation, because I wasn't specifically really thinking about my particular dog and this particular incident. Everything was fine. Nothing happened. But next time, with someone else's dog, it absolutely could. A kid could get really hurt. That's why I was livid!

OP posts:
eightandthreequarters · 15/11/2013 13:52

OP, your stand here seems to be that the rest of the world should be educated in letting you leave your dog unsupervised and unmuzzled. You want to do your part to educate the rest of society not to touch unsupervised dogs by ringing the school.

Everyone agrees that the teacher was an idiot and that children should be taught never to approach strange dogs. However, the world is full of idiots and full of children who run ahead and launch themselves at strange dogs, despite what they have been told. And if your dog bites any of them, you and your poor dog will be held responsible.

I'd suggest your plan to change everyone else's behaviour is less likely to prevent injury than changing your own. You need to muzzle because everyone else in your part of the world will not have learnt the lesson by the next time you stop into the café.

lardydahdydah · 15/11/2013 13:53

Well said eight

HarderToKidnap · 15/11/2013 13:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BabyDubsEverywhere · 15/11/2013 13:55

Honestly if I saw a small dog attached to a pushchair I would assume safe with children... I wouldn't pet it, because I don't feel the need the need to pet dogs that aren't mine. Children do seem to have this need... if the dog was attached to a pushchair and they wanted to I can see why the teacher thought it to be a safe enough thing to do. Perhaps they don't have dogs and are not dog savvy? perhaps if your dog struggles with children you shouldn't make him appear so approachable... because people will approach, particularly hen he appears child friendly...

My dog is a mongrel about the size of a Chihuahua, he could pull an empty pushchair over on top of himself if he wanted to... I would rethink that too tbh.

lottieandmia · 15/11/2013 13:55

'What other people do with their dogs is very relevant in this situation, because I wasn't specifically really thinking about my particular dog and this particular incident.'

I am sure you would be upset if you were to lose your dog when you could have done something to prevent it wouldn't you?

Original poster
HarderToKidnap · 15/11/2013 13:56

I'd suggest eight, that your reasoning is exceptionally flawed. Muzzling my one, non aggressive, dog, won't save anyone from being bitten. Educating a teacher that they don't allow their charges to approach strange dogs will actually reduce the amount of children/dog interactions far more than muzzling one dog will.

OP posts:
eightandthreequarters · 15/11/2013 13:56

No, I don't think you should ring the school. Based on responses here, you stand more than a 50/50 chance of the school being livid that you had left your dog unsupervised.

lardydahdydah · 15/11/2013 13:58

Well that's a really mature comeback.

If I could be bothered I'd country them, but it won't change your behaviour will it?

Original poster
HarderToKidnap · 15/11/2013 13:58

No, I don't think I will ring the school, not because they might be livid (why would I be worried about that?) but because I don't really want to get anyone in to trouble. Not sure what school it was anyway and would have to ring round to find out which seems slightly overkill.

OP posts:
eightandthreequarters · 15/11/2013 13:58

If your dog was not going to bite, then why did you rush out of the café to prevent it doing so, telling them he doesn't like children and could snap?

And no, I don't think you ringing the school will change the children's behaviour next time. Or that of the hundreds who may pass your dog and do not go to that school or that class.

DeathByLaundry · 15/11/2013 13:59

YABVU to tie up a dog with a history of aggression outside a shop. YOU were the one putting him at risk of biting someone and being put to sleep.

YANBU to contact the school and explain that you were concerned that the children weren't being taught that they mustn't approach dogs without the permission of the owner (and the dog actually). If you'd like some links to resources which the school may find useful, please let me know.

Original poster
HarderToKidnap · 15/11/2013 13:59

Sigh. Lardy, I have said I'm rethinking what to do with my dog. But if it makes you feel better, I'll pretend that I'm not. Then you can call me thick again.

OP posts:
lucycoco · 15/11/2013 14:00

OP I think the stick you're getting here is predictable but over the top.

It's all very well saying 'but there will be stupid people and there's nothing you can do about it' but this is a particularly stupid person letting a group of children do something that's quite dangerous with ANY dog. So what if the teacher didn't know dogs - how about erring on the side of caution and using a bit of common sense?

A teacher letting children play a ball game beside a quiet road might be a good analogy - should everyone drive at 5mph in case someone stupid is in charge of a group of schoolchildren? Or, in fact, are there things in life (cars on roads, dogs outside shops) that will stay part of life, and I'd have thought one of the points of a school trip is to responsibly teach children how to stay safe when encountering them?

Original poster
HarderToKidnap · 15/11/2013 14:00

Because he COUld have snapped. He's a dog. Then can do that when surrounded by lots of strange kids. Any dog, by the way, not just mine.

OP posts:
DropYourSword · 15/11/2013 14:00

I definitely agree that children should be taught NEVER to approach and try to pet a dog without having asked the owners permission. It's something that was drummed into me as a child and I think it's very important for kids to learn this and apply it in real life.

lottieandmia · 15/11/2013 14:01

Harder - in your OP you said your dog was liable to snap and could have bitten a child. Now you're saying he's 'non aggressive' and seem to have changed the facts of the matter because not everyone agrees with you. That's a risk you take on AIBU - but I do think people are thinking of the risks for you and your dog. My main concern would be my responsibility as a dog owner. You are never going to be able to alter other people's behaviour.

littlemrssleepy · 15/11/2013 14:02

I don't get it. How can you state you dog is not aggressive when he has snapped at children before? If my kids are annoying me and a I snap at them (I'm talking verbally, bit of course same argument if physical), I am being aggressive towards them. There might be extenuating circumstances but it is still me being aggressive.