Actually, I am being really unreasonable. However I would like to ask those who have experienced Angel Feathers to....

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...answer a few questions that I have.

1). What does it feel like when you see that feather?

2). What are your thoughts when this happens?

And

3). What would you say are the long term (if any) effects that you would attribute to these encounters.

I understand that this belief has been the subject of some ridicule here. I have no intention of ridiculing anyone. This thread has been inspired by a previous AIBU thread, but is not a thread about a thread. I am not a journalist. I am not seeking results to use in an academic submission or publication. What I am seeking is knowledge and understanding in the hope that I can use it to help others.

IABU for the following reasons:
I only posted in AIBU for the traffic. If MN rule that I have breached guidelines, can it be moved and not deleted.

And I ask the skeptics not to put people off answering honestly. If you think it necessary, I can start another thread for all your thoughts to be discussed. Perhaps the scientifically minded of you could look at this as an information gathering excersise.

Hope is what I gained head and as a result freedom.

Don't worry Sublime. The thread was derailed before you arrived.

Yep, belief is contentious.

Hettie science is amoral, right does not come into it. It is the pursuit of knowledge for it's own sake

Yes. Knowledge. You don't think knowledge is valuable? Look at the world around you, for heaven's sake?

I just looked up what "righteousness" means: The quality of being morally right or justifiable.

I don't think Christianity falls into either.

Golddigger Have you thought of doing missionary work in Africa? I'm sure lots of Christians out there would love to hear how they shouldn't worry about being fed & clothed.

Or does that only apply to Christians in the 6th richest country on Earth?

I have no idea whether they were indeed Christian, and whether they were indeed trying to do exactly what God wanted them to do. That is between them and God

The implication being that they were either not Christians or not good Christians.

That's the most disgusting thing I have ever heard on this forum. Shame on you.

How do you personally judge righteousness Hettie. Is it built into our make up. Oh but then what about all the deviants? Are they abhorations? To be 'cured', well at least to have conditions managed subject to drug availability, or put away from society. Who decides? The democratic vote, oh but what about mob rule, whole populations that have gone astray. Wars then, survival of the fittest. Bit of a bloody way to go about it...

At least Christianity offers Redemption.

If Jesus came back tomorrow, the same thing would happen as in 2000 years ago.
He would either get assassignated or jailed for life.
People didnt like what he had to say then, and ordinary people wouldnt like it now, see above.
And people in power sure wouldnt like it, as their noses would be put out of joint because people would literally be following him everywhere, in part, because he would be healing diseases. He owuld be seen to have so much more power than him that they would absolutely hate it.

Ah so if they died it was because they weren't real Christians. Gosh how can someone make sure they're a real Christian? I assume you think you've got it right. How can you be sure. I assume those dead Christians thought they had it right too.

I have no reason a man called Jesus was born 2000 years ago let alone went around healing people. Why do you think the bible is real?

And people in power sure wouldnt like it, as their noses would be put out of joint because people would literally be following him everywhere, in part, because he would be healing diseases.

Which would be a lot more impressive than dropping feathers.

Who do you mean by ordinary people?

So the Christians who died in the Philippines did so because they had some part of their doctrine wrong. Or more accurately god watched them drown because they had some part of the doctrine wrong. He also watched their babies drown because their parents had the doctrine wrong.

Did you hear about the man in the Philippines who clung to a tree for hours, clutching his 2 and 3 year old sons? And eventually a storm surge swept him away, and also swept one of the boys out of his arms- he managed to get to safety with the other one.

What did God have in mind there? He was probably a Christian- most people in the Philippines are. Was he a very good Christian because he was aloud to keep one of his sons, or not a very good one because one of them was drowned? Or was it just part of some eternal plan that required that tiny boy to die in terror?

He actively made a decision to let family A, who have the right doctrine, live, but family B who have the doctrine wrong, he said 'nah, they've got this bit wrong so they get to drown'. What about the non believers who were lucky enough to survive anyway, or the wrong doctrine Christians? That could cause a lot of confusion couldn't it. You could think 'ooh, Pete survived and he believes in predestination so that's what we should start believing' but then next week there's a tsunami and because they now believe in predestination god removed their protection. Oh dear what a muddle. Isn't there a better way for god to operate? How about he says 'screw it, humans have enough of a hard time anyway, let's go nuts and protect everyone?' That'd be kinda nice wouldn't it?

I have to be honest, I just couldn't love a god like that, a god that watched some of his followers drown just because they didn't believe in this bit or that, or a god that watched anyone drown to be fair. That would be a bit of a yucky character trait to be honest. I also might not go a bundle on anyone who thought their god did that and still worshiped him.

Not quite sure what you're asking me, sublime.

Most of us know right from wrong - even "deviants" know when they are doing something immoral. It's called free will.

How do we know? Thousands and thousands of years of social evolution amongst other things.

"Survival of the fittest?" Do you know what this actually means?

At least Christianity offers Redemption

Since Christianity cannot prove that any such thing exists, how is it moral to offer it?

Your "argument" seems to be veering towards, "How do people know how to be good without god?" The answer is, quite well, thanks. We just don't need the promise of a reward after death to see the sense & need to be decent while we're still alive.

So all this aid we're sending there, how does that fit in? It's obviously going to help people god didn't protect. Won't god be a bit miffed about that? He watches their whole life swept away having chosen not to protect them, but pesky humans are trying to put it right? Wouldn't he want them to fully suffer the consequences of not having the right doctrine/religion?

I think I'd rather have the God who lost his temper and drowned everybody (apart from a breeding pair) then said sorry. I've dealt with toddler tantrums before.

Golddigger, I try very, very hard not to let emotion get in way of posting on here, but quite frankly I feel very, very angry just now ( the keyboard is taking a right hammering).

I've spent years in churches with doctrines like yours and it nearly destroyed my faith. Both my husband and I are Christians and he has cancer. I happen to know that some of our "friends" think that it is probably something he's done - not had enough faith, not prayed hard enough, sinned in some way. I've personally seen sick and dying people treated in the most inhuman and appalling ways and no way was I going to have us the same position. We choose our friends carefully and don't go to church.

I know it's bad form to knock someone of the same faith, but this is very upsetting for me.

I probably ought to add that we also have some lovely Christian friends who have been nothing but supportive and helpful. They don't go to church either.

Sub, how would you know someone had been redeemed? How would their life be noticeably different to someone who isn't redeemed?

It's not my usual style to rant like that and I want to apologise for my post. Mainly because I seemed to suggest that all churches are the same. I know there are some decent ones out there who are very accepting and kind. It's just not a risk I want to take at the moment.

head Redemption is a process but generally Fruits of the Spirit, patience, kindness etc there are more, they are in the Bible.

Although strictly speaking you are saved once you are Born Again in Christ. However the mind has to be renewed, there can be a bit of inertia.

It depends whether you believe you will be redeemed by faith or works.......