Actually, I am being really unreasonable. However I would like to ask those who have experienced Angel Feathers to....

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...answer a few questions that I have.

1). What does it feel like when you see that feather?

2). What are your thoughts when this happens?

And

3). What would you say are the long term (if any) effects that you would attribute to these encounters.

I understand that this belief has been the subject of some ridicule here. I have no intention of ridiculing anyone. This thread has been inspired by a previous AIBU thread, but is not a thread about a thread. I am not a journalist. I am not seeking results to use in an academic submission or publication. What I am seeking is knowledge and understanding in the hope that I can use it to help others.

IABU for the following reasons:
I only posted in AIBU for the traffic. If MN rule that I have breached guidelines, can it be moved and not deleted.

And I ask the skeptics not to put people off answering honestly. If you think it necessary, I can start another thread for all your thoughts to be discussed. Perhaps the scientifically minded of you could look at this as an information gathering excersise.

No I mean tell me how I could see that your life was noticeably better than mine?

And that is was better because I your access to knowledge from god

I never said my life is better than yours head. I don't know what has happened in your life or more pertinently what will happen to you in the future.

I just said our lives are different, which I am sure you would not disagree with.

So the wisdom you gain from god has no noticeably positive effect on your life in general, when compared to mine. How is your life very different to mine then do you reckon. Other than the praying you still eat, sleep, work, pay bills, care for your family and so on?

I have a couple of questions for posters who believe that white feathers are moved into position by angels.

Do you believe all randomly placed feathers are sent by angels or just some of them? Are you able to tell the difference?

Also, I had never heard of this belief as a child. Is it a new 'trendy' thing to believe or have posters known about it since childhood?

I never claimed to have evidence

You claimed that religion and science are compatible.

Religion/faith = Never mind evidence or lack thereof, I believe because I do

Science = Evidence. All about the evidence. Always.

So they are not actually in the slightest bit compatible, are they?

NB: I think some people's religion is compatible with science. Just not yours, which is the point I initially made.

head as I have said I don't know your life, no comparison can be made between your life my own.

However the wisdom I have gained from God helps me and the others I in turn help. I would be a different person without it.

Our beliefs shape out lives, for me my Faith is a positive thing. However we all have differing starting points (and end points), so I cannot (yet) compare our lives in terms of whose is better overall.

Hettie my point is that scientific evidence is interpreted by fallible human beings.

NB: I think some people's religion is compatible with science. Just not yours, which is the point I initially made.

Do tell, now I'm intrigued. What religion impresses you?

"Hettie my point is that scientific evidence is interpreted by fallible human beings."

Yes. Which is why there are fair testing protocols and peer reviews.

The problem is that you are assuming people look at science the way others look at religion- uncritically and with blind faith. They don't. The whole point is constant question, challenge and development.

But would you not think that if you had a group of people who had direct 24/7 access to the mind and wisdom of an all knowing superbeing, would you not think that their lives would be very different. At first you agreed, now you seem to be saying that while their lives are very different it's a difference that isn't noticeable.

See it this way. Imagine I tell you I am in contact with aliens whose knowledge and wisdom is far far more advanced than ours. You ask me for evidence. I say that you won't be able to notice the difference but assert that there is a difference additionally I can't give you any examples of information that could have only come from them. Doesn't make my claim look serious does it.

No religion impresses me - but some people are less entrenched than others, and don't claim that they are in personal communication with the creator of the universe.

sublime The whole point about science is that it changes it's mind based on the evidence. Religion does not and cannot.

These kinds of threads are always filled with theists pointing out pre-scientific ideas (like alchemy, the ether and so on) saying, "See? Science isn't always right. It's wrong to put your faith in it!"

This is nonsensical. Science CORRECTS ITSELF so those are examples of good science in practice. We must expect ideas and conclusions to change as new data emerges. That this happens is the great, great strength of science - not a fallibility as you seem to think.

Difference thank you for telling your story. I was partularly interested in the fact that you (like others) have kept the feather and it has a positive impact on your mood each time you look at it.

Callaird what you said in your post about how you deal with your grief without resorting to pills or vodka is the reason why I started this thread. I wanted a better understanding of how such beliefs enable the believer to process their grief in a way that many people who present with substance misuse, PTSD, OCD and depression and anxiety due to Complicated Grief do not.

My intention in starting this thread is in the OP. To understand the mechanisms (specifically the thoughts, feelings and long term effects on mood) at play on the grieving process. It was not to discuss the origins, materialism or indeed the rights or wrongs of the belief itself. I think that these things have been extensively covered in the previous threads regarding feathers.

You are putting words in to my mouth head, but yes there us a possibility that you may not be able to perceive differences at first glance.

An analogy would be the question of whether animals had language. Although we can decode a lot of the noises they make and gestures there is much we cannot as outsiders perceive, epistemic humility is good in all situations. Animals have different physiology and perception to our own. Many have a heightened sense of hearing. Never mind the arguments concerning whether language has to have grammar, but then what about sign language? No grammar but does have different dialect. Then what about societies that have no recursion? How does that affect communication, the way they communicate and see the world and visa versa.

All in all I can write posts to you head but if you truly appreciated what I was communicating, would you agree? You can't since you don't know me or have my life.

curlew

The problem is that you are assuming people look at science the way others look at religion- uncritically and with blind faith. They don't. The whole point is constant question, challenge and development.

Many do. That is my reservation.

Hettie many only know science has corrected itself after the harm has been done.

Apologies Dione I think your thread has derailed somewhat.

Hettie many only know science has corrected itself after the harm has been done

And the harm of religion & superstitious nonsense? You don't really want that conversation, do you?

Science tries to get things right. Religion couldn't give a damn whether it's right or not - just believe no matter how stupid & illogical and you'll get your reward after you're dead.

Havent read whole thread. Am a Christian.

Christian lives are different.
Very different, if the Christians are trying to follow bible teachings.

We are blessed.
We should not be worrying about money. We should know that we will be fed watered and clothed. I always note here though that it doesnt mention shelter.
We always have a Friend.
We are guarded.
I could go on and on and on

The Philippines is 85% Christian. What went wrong with gods protection last week?

Hettie science is amoral, right does not come into it. It is the pursuit of knowledge for it's own sake.

Christianity is concerned with righteousness however and you get blessed before you are dead.

But sub you're not a different species to me are you. You've still not said how one could see any difference in the appearance of our life foray glance or otherwise.

Sorry that should be first glance or otherwise.

So golddigger, you're claiming that Christians are guarded by god and will have enough food and water. So Christians never starve or die in accidents? Or get murdered? Or disease?

Because I know nothing about your life head, apart from your beliefs. Different species, hmm maybe yes, metaphorically speaking of course.

So take your average non Christian then. How would you expect your life to be different to theirs. Or imagine you stopped believing tomorrow, you wouldn't be able to think I ways to help the people you love or to solve problems?

So we're not different species then.

If Christians are following what they are supposed to do from the bible, they have not added to Gods rules or taken away from them, Gods promise is that He will feed them and clothe them.
If we as Christians choose not to follow his rules or add to them or take away from them, His promise will not necessarily hold.
I cannot possible speak for all the Phillipinos. I have no idea whether they were indeed Christian, and whether they were indeed trying to do exactly what God wanted them to do. That is between them and God.