to be absolutely freaking fuming about breastfeeding vouchers! !!!

[harriet247]

Cannot put into words how annoyed I am,have just switched on the news to be told that the government are considering offering breastfeeding vouchers to new mums.
160 quid in shopping vouchers for the first 6 weeks of the babys life and 200 if you go up to 6 months.
Im a ftm and I had crippling horrible guilt that I couldn't breastfeed. I really wanted to but my milk didnt turn up until 9 days after my baby was born. I think was something to do with 44 hour labour which ended in an emc a few weeks before my due date.
I am just furious, furious that women are being treated like foolish little ladies who need a cash incentive to feed their babies in the way the powers that be say is best.

I didnt say they shouldn't care. I said it didn't matter. In the scheme of things it matters less than some stuff, like say a healthy baby or a body that functions well but sure, it matters to some people, well probably all of us to an extent. I do care about my body and its appearance.

That was not an accurate thing to say and I am sorry.

I thnik some people are loosing the gist of the thread this is a research thing this isn't vouchers been thrown at poor women to bribe them to breastfeed, these women will be asked if they want to take part in a research yes oh great sign here ,

Elskovs - it is a myth.

Weight loss, very fast weaning from the breast and the changes that come with pregnancy cause the majority of the damage, not breastfeeding.

Cross posted Pato, yes by Nazis I only meant the nasty ones.

Plenty, like myself just see it as a way of feeding their baby rather than a lifestyle choice or political statement.

Minifingers - I had a normal pair of C cups, and after my second child self weaned aged 2 years 8 months I was left with no breast tissue at all. You can tell me its a myth as much as you like, but it doesn't change the reality of my empty breast sacks.

My surgeon was a NHS reconstructive surgeon who asked me to wait 6 months before the op anyway.

There was no fast weaning in my case... so how you would you explain my strange deformed post bf figure?

mini true (in answer to your point to me) however it was incredibly stressful at the time and in hindsight I wish I hadn't bothered to breastfeed. It just added another pressure that I didn't need on top of such a horrible situation. And it made me feel so guilty when it was so hard to do. I had the HV threatening to have ds re-admitted to hospital because he was losing weight and I was insisting I had to breastfeed. He had to go back to SCBU and be weighed whilst they decided what they were going to do. It didn't help me to feel I would be a successful parent.

How polite of you Pato, Thank you. :)

Elkos, pregnancy alone probably would have done that.

If they have money to throw at this I can't help thinking that consultation with a lactation and tongue-tie expert before discharge from hospital, or within 48 hours of birth, would help a lot. I failed to BF both mine and like OP felt (will probably always feel) immense guilt about it.

DD nearly failed to thrive; she didn't poo (bar the green goop) for over a week and I was beginning to worry - at 5 or 6 weeks she was diagnosed with TT but by then it was too late for my supply (I had a 22m old to care for as well and couldn't sit around for hours trying to establish one) and also for her - she was into bottles and didn't really want to try latching without getting anything.

I am convinced my DS was the same (the TT was a tight frenulum, not one of those ones where it appears to have barely separated) but I stopped because I was bordering on depression and in agony; my nipples were beyond cracked; they were kind of eroded. It always fucked me off that support like that was so hard to find. BF counsellors didn't seem to cut the mustard - they all without fail said 'the latch seems fine; not sure why it's still hurting' (although I know many do a great job and don't want to put them down overly).

I was so jealous of a friend that had her DD in Switzerland where she said the standard maternity care includes something like a BF specialist who helps you establish feeding & hospital care for three days (during which they only bring you your baby to feed; they let you sleep if they wake unsettled).

eugenes that would only help those who attempt breast feeding.

This voucher scheme would be to encourage those who wouldnt usually consider it.

"Plenty, like myself just see it as a way of feeding their baby rather than a lifestyle choice or political statement."

We ALL see it as a way of feeding a baby. Because it is.

But on a wider stage it is also a public health issue, and a political issue, because women's choices are strongly influenced by the markets and by existing social structures.

I see it as a political issue because I feel quite strongly that ALL babies, rich or poor, deserve the best nutritional start in life, and at the moment they're vastly more likely to get that in the UK if their mum is a highly paid professional than if she's a 16 year old from a poor area. That can't be right can it?

"in hindsight I wish I hadn't bothered to breastfeed"

What - even knowing that your child might have been even sicker if you hadn't done?

What shrivel up my existing breast tissue? Doubtful, as it didn't happen until the extended breast feeding of my 2nd pregnancy.

Its accepted that some womens cup size has permanently increased after breastfeeding, so I wonder why is it denied so insistently that it can have the opposite effect.

mini not all children are little waifs and in and out of hospital because they didn't get breastmilk

mini threads moved on again, but to answer what you put earlier:

But campaigns to increase awareness of the drawbacks of ff might help as well. Most people I know who don't bf see bf as being like a sort of vitamin or something - a nice optional extra that doesn't actually in real terms make any difference. Or like organic carrots. They're really not aware that in choosing to ff they are putting their baby at higher risk of needing a hospital admission in the first few months of life. I think knowing this is quite useful in getting a clear handle on the health issues, which otherwise can seem quite vague.

It's this bit They're really not aware that in choosing to ff they are putting their baby at higher risk of needing a hospital admission in the first few months of life that I do absolutely don't agree with.

This introduces guilt to the mother who chooses to ff for whatever reason. Ff doesn't put your baby at risk and this is just unnecessary guilting. I would still not have bf, but would have felt a whole lot of guilt - is that fair??

Normalising and playing the long game is the way forward, stop people having the extreme feelings that I had in the long term.

Many of the people against this seem to be people who have been unable to bf.

As someone who bf I of course would have gladly accepted the vouchers but I would never have felt truly justified doing so, particularly when my ff friends who tried so hard were only trying to do the best thing by their babies too.

They may not have bf but many of them are far "better" than me at other aspects of motherhood... Perhaps they spend more time with their children, are more creative, more forgiving (don't get me wrong.. I try to do all of these but what I'm saying is that BF doesn't necessarily make you a good mother).

I think it's important to question why there seem to be so many people in developed countries who find it so difficult to bf when there are still millions of women in the world who don't have access to formula.

The only answers I can come up with are:

1. support - as well as support lacking from healthcare providers we also have to recognise that people are turning to their female peers (mothers / aunts / grandmothers etc) far less who would also be a valuable source of advice and experience. Extended family units and maternal guidance are disappearing compared to previous generations and other cultures. It seems we are trying to substitute it with healthcare services because the need for support is not waning.

2. there is a sufficiently good and frankly easy alternative readily and often freely available to those who want it, whatever their reason may be - ff.

Since giving out shop vouchers addresses neither of these points I think it's an unnecessary waste of money. And money spent should be used as an INVESTMENT in addressing why the bf culture has changed so much, not a reward for those who are lucky enough and persevere long enough.

It is discriminatory and doesn't address the real issues that have developed over many years regards BF now.

Many of the people against this seem to be people who have been unable to bf.

As someone who bf I of course would have gladly accepted the vouchers but I would never have felt truly justified doing so, particularly when my ff friends who tried so hard were only trying to do the best thing by their babies too.

They may not have bf but many of them are far "better" than me at other aspects of motherhood... Perhaps they spend more time with their children, are more creative, more forgiving (don't get me wrong.. I try to do all of these but what I'm saying is that BF doesn't necessarily make you a good mother).

I think it's important to question why there seem to be so many people in developed countries who find it so difficult to bf when there are still millions of women in the world who don't have access to formula.

The only answers I can come up with are:

1. support - as well as support lacking from healthcare providers we also have to recognise that people are turning to their female peers (mothers / aunts / grandmothers etc) far less who would also be a valuable source of advice and experience. Extended family units and maternal guidance are disappearing compared to previous generations and other cultures. It seems we are trying to substitute it with healthcare services because the need for support is not waning.

2. there is a sufficiently good and frankly easy alternative readily and often freely available to those who want it, whatever their reason may be - ff.

Since giving out shop vouchers addresses neither of these points I think it's an unnecessary waste of money. And money spent should be used as an INVESTMENT in addressing why the bf culture has changed so much, not a reward for those who are lucky enough and persevere long enough.

It is discriminatory and doesn't address the real issues that have developed over many years regards BF now.

I think it's important to question why there seem to be so many people in developed countries who find it so difficult to bf when there are still millions of women in the world who don't have access to formula.

I'm not sure what the connection is there? Just because they don't have access to formula, it doesn't magically make all women able to breastfeed. It just means the baby will die if they can't find a wet nurse or cows milk.

Can you give any statistics of women in under-developed countries who are unable to breastfeed? There's an assumption that they all manage it because they "have to" but that isn't necessarily true.

I will never attempt to BF again.

DC1- is forever having problems with his throat, ulcer, SAL problems, dietary problem also has LD and ASD. He was BF until he was 5.5 months old.

DC2, never ill and doing well, FF from 3 days old.

No amount of money will convince me that breast feeding work well for my children

You think breastfeeding caused your son to have ASD and LD? What is SAL?

Controversially, how about spending the money not on rewarding breast feeding mothers, but on respecting a woman's right to choose and providing good, current advice to women who choose to formula feed. How many of the health issues like stomach bugs are caused by the fact it's not well publicised on how to make up formula, and in particular WHY the rules should be followed.

I've got a couple of degrees, my DH has a PHD, but we still needed to ask for advice from our MW. She told us to boil water in the morning and then add formula when required. A quick route to keeping those germs alive in other words.

Thats a good point about not knowing the ff rules Girl because I didnt know about some of them myself. I made some terrible mistakes though I had no idea until 5 years after I made them!

However, that doesnt need money that needs MW and HV to be told to tell women of the rules of ff safely.

Plus, if the scheme worked and more women breast feed then it'd help significantly more because there would be no ff involved with more babies. In theory.

"The fact that you arent even taking on board that you are wrong in your assumptions Idiot makes arguing with you totally pointless."

If you weren't being so rude then maybe it would make it more likely that for people to take on board what you are saying.

Really, you have been terribly rude.

I ebf until 2.5 (low income, though wasn't in the uk at the time), and would have liked to have had the vouchers :)
I feel bad for people who really want to bf and can't, it must be terrible... for me it wasn't really an option not to, even though I had a really terrible time at first and I was told I wouldn't be able to do it (after I nearly died in delivery).

I know its a personal choice etc, and a minority really can't do it, but most people the bottom line is that most people could and should bf, and I think more should be done to encourage people, and really just show them it can be done... I've spoken to mothers who were just squeamish about it, even after having several kids! I think after giving birth to a child, breastfeeding isn't too hard, just an adjustment. :)
I think I'm lucky because despite coming from a quite poor background my mum did bf, so it wasn't too weird for me and I think that's the main barrier- some people have never been exposed to bfing and so just think it's weird or not for them. If it could be seen as a positive and normal thing... kind of the default option unless it's really not possible, then I'm sure vouchers wouldn't be offered, lol. But as it is, I don't see how it could hurt...

I mean, if I was offended, I'd just refuse them, but maybe it will stop mothers thinking that they might as well take the formula vouchers as they're free, because they wouldn't get anything for bfing, and people tend to think bf is more work (it's not actually). Perhaps a better option would be to offer fruit and veg vouchers or something, to improve the nutrition of the low-income bfing mother and so the baby.

I don't think it did, but I do think it lead to my son not having a DX sooner.

SAL is sound and language.

Im not rude, Im frustrated.

Mainly by you who has been making up facts and assumptions.