to be concerned re. what is going on re. immigration and population growth?

[ClarityJane]

So many non-English voices, especially East Europeans, but so many different nationalities en masse it seems have moved here in the last 10-20 years - completely unprecedented historically. And in an already very over-crowded island.

Today I read Labour MP Frank Field say that the population increase due to immigration by 2031, i.e. less than 20 years, will be approximately 10 million and will require building something like seven new Birminghams! Or another London! Based on latest predictions in the papers today anyway.

Did Blair and Mandelson envisage this when they signed up for European Community rules on immigration and refugees? Or did they cynically not care because it meant cheap labour, cheap votes, increased profits (via membership of the European Community).

Did the architects of this policy not consider how it would affect housing, jobs and education and the resulting massive investment needed there, and the over-crowded population we have already.

I believe we have never been consulted or told anything honestly about what the consequences of EC membership was immigration-wise, if indeed there was ever any plan (doesn't seem to be, just a kind of opportunistic carpetbaggers philosophy approach of selling England by the pound).

I feel deceived and hoodwinked really. But are there any more positive thoughts on this? I find it v. depressing.

I blame Thatcher for the lack of housing

Me too.

Me three

Precisely YouTheCat.

There has been plenty of time since Thatcher for the government of the time to build social housing.

While I disliked her with a passion , we can't keep on blaming her for the country's woes. Labour had plenty of time to redress the balance and instead sucked up to the banks, squandered our resources and left us in the shit . I still can't forgive them for abrogating their socialist principles

I blame Thatcher for the lack of Housing too. You know because she stopped the Councils from building any more Social Housing in the 80's which actually would have probably helped with these swathes of Immigrants that I fail to see large numbers of despite living in an Inner City myself that come over here and overcrowded our teeny tiny Island

Ironically I bet all the racists posters who object to immigrants, love her.

No prettybird the Banks fucked up the Banks. Cameron took the EU to Court to prevent them from being able to control Bankers Bonuses very recently.

I haven't read the whole thread, but this is a very good article which debunks many of the popular myths about the effect of immigration:

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/natalie-bennett/immigration-britain_b_3597376.html

Also was only talking to a Nurse recently who didn't qualify for the Governments' new Help to Buy Scheme. But yes its Labours fault.

I just blame Thatcher for every thing

It is also my default setting.

Though I do accept that subsequent governments could have done more. But she started it.

Our governments (both left and right wing) could have regulated more robustly to stop the gambling of the banks. Instead, they were quite happy to reap the apparent benefits of their expansion

I still remember the hubris of Brown's "I've banished boom and bust".

But this is a whole separate debate to the immigration and racism issues raised by the OP.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread but-

I agree that immigration has been costly, put pressure on services and changed the face of Britain. But, I don't think this is a bad thing, the world is an overcrowded place IMO, we all have to squeeze up if we want to keep having children and live almost forever. The worlds wealth is very unequally divided up so maybe the standard of living we have come to feel is our right is just unrealistic and unfair.

If I was living in dire poverty I'd be straight on a plane to the land of plenty as well.

Oh and another thing, I don't think it's racist to be uncomfortable/unhappy about immigration. Peoples concerns should be discussed without fear of being called racist.

Thing is Ken, where-ever one attributes the blame (Thatcher, New Labour, Blair and Brown's fondness for PFIs and letting bank deregulation run rampant because they were terrified of looking like "old Labour", Cameron's bedroom tax), the fact is that most of the things that immigration is blamed for - pressure on the welfare state, lack of affordable housing - are in fact driven by other economic factors. It just suits the rightwing press to use immigrants as a scapegoat to distract people's attention from the real causes. It's the old "Divide and conquer" strategy - set the poor white people against the poor non-white people, and neither set of people will notice it's the old Etonians/Fettes FPs that are actually in charge of the shit storm.

I agree with you ken, peoples concerns should be discussed and not dismissed as racist - i don't think anyone has argued with that. They have pointed out that economically, immigration has been a net gain for the UK, which is good because i didn't know this. However the OP WAS racist with comments such as "So many non-English voices" and other things she said further down the thread - people quite rightly called her on that.

Quite proud of this thread really.

KenDodd It is cuts to Public Services by this Government that have put pressure on those services not Immigration. PrettyBird I know it is but you bought the Subject up so just clarified. Again. Blame Brown all you like but someone who takes the EU to Court using Taxpayers money for his Banking Friends is no better is he?

That's well put Lurcio

They are all a bunch of self-serving bastards.

Totally agree with Misspixie - it is the cuts that are putting pressure on services, not immigrants.

YouTheCat "But she started it!". Stop.Harking. Back.To.The.Past!

misspixietrix - nope, he's no better either. I agree that the gambling bonus culture needs to be addressed and don't think the financial sector would implode if there were some limits imposed.

And even if it did, I'm not 100% sure that basing our economy on gambling (which is what the investment bankers are) is a good thing.

Another one starting with 'I haven't read the full thread but'.

I really believe there should be some sort of retina scan set in MN whereby it can check whether you've read the whole thread before commenting at the end.

There was a good point made on the radio the other day about immigration. (Moral Maze last week).
If you are middle class british, then you are happy because you could employ a hard working, highly skilled, relatively cheap plumber/ builder to build your house, you could also employ a cheap childminder/ nanny/ au pair to look after your dcs whilst you work, and a conscientious and cheap cleaner to clean your house, you could enjoy pleasant and inexpensive service at your local pub or restaurant or hotel and choose from a number of local dentists.
If you are a working class inner-city lad then it's not so good. There are no apprenticeships for you as no one needs to run expensive apprenticeships as they can employ ready trained immigrants, there are few jobs as you are competing with experienced incomers, housing is harder to find, in fact your future is grim, and immigration is making the prospects worse.

There was a piece last week on Radio 2 where some arsehole was blaming the people on minimum wage in call centres for selling people PPI - no thought to the fact that they had to or they would be fired. No reference to the high up, rich bankers telling their minions what to do.

I think some of the bankers should have gone to prison for defrauding the country and some should have to pay back those ill-gotten bonuses. That would have gone some way to appease people.