to be concerned re. what is going on re. immigration and population growth?

[ClarityJane]

So many non-English voices, especially East Europeans, but so many different nationalities en masse it seems have moved here in the last 10-20 years - completely unprecedented historically. And in an already very over-crowded island.

Today I read Labour MP Frank Field say that the population increase due to immigration by 2031, i.e. less than 20 years, will be approximately 10 million and will require building something like seven new Birminghams! Or another London! Based on latest predictions in the papers today anyway.

Did Blair and Mandelson envisage this when they signed up for European Community rules on immigration and refugees? Or did they cynically not care because it meant cheap labour, cheap votes, increased profits (via membership of the European Community).

Did the architects of this policy not consider how it would affect housing, jobs and education and the resulting massive investment needed there, and the over-crowded population we have already.

I believe we have never been consulted or told anything honestly about what the consequences of EC membership was immigration-wise, if indeed there was ever any plan (doesn't seem to be, just a kind of opportunistic carpetbaggers philosophy approach of selling England by the pound).

I feel deceived and hoodwinked really. But are there any more positive thoughts on this? I find it v. depressing.

tinmug Why are you here if you hate this country so much? Genuine question, given your post?

I've lived in a multicultural area since the 1970s.

So it's a bloody long experiment.

The trick is to call everyone a bigot - then it's not personal, Ciocia.

Youthecat, yes there always has been immigration in the uk. But not at this level or speed. Too lazy to find the stats but they are there to back it up.

Also there has been influxes of communities at different times - the Norse, the Romans etc etc - but not a mix at this level however such is globalisation.

Yes there has. What about the 50s/60s?

news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/short_history_of_immigration.stm#1950

You are right - MNHQ's message is indeed misleading. I read the thread before the deletions and know that some of the deleted posts were attacking the racism that was either directly or implicitly within some of the trolls' uninformed posts. Yet those that don't know the names might think that they were the racists. Poor show on MNHQ's part

I am an immigrant. But I would probably be acceptable to the OP because I am a naice white middle-class English speaker . I've been here since I was 3 and as far as I am concerned, I'm Sciritsh passport - but thanks to previous scaremongering, I wouldn't be able to marry a non-Brit and bring him into this country as of right as I wasn't born here. Fortunately I married a Scot - yet he looks more foreign than me! damn those pesky illegal immigrants from 500 years ago when the fleeing Armada left shipwrecked Spaniards around the coast of Scotland

We still live in the United Kingdom yet here in Scotland we are needing more immigration - while immigration policy is being driven by a UKIP fearing, Daily Mail reading Conservative Party worried about the overcrowded South East.

I live in a highly ethnic area where 60% of the kids at ds' catchment primary school spoke English as an Additional Language - and I am extremely happy with the education he had there. I don't mind the fact that when I go to the local shops I hear Urdu spoken and many of the shops are shut on a Friday lunchtime for mosque. I get great value spices there - and it is a very friendly community.

As the head teacher at the secondary school he now goes to says, "We celebrate diversity". It gets good results because it works with the pupils it has and concentrates on achievement and attainment, using the fact we have so many languages and not whinging about the problems.

With reference to posts by Williamina, why is it that defending bigotry is so often directly correlated with an inability to use the English language properly?

So the OP gets to post racist shite (i always thought that was illegal) and people are being deleted for calling her on it?

I've seen that article before but there aren't comparative figures across decades. I've seen other articles that have said the last 20 years has seen much more but being lazy and watching Donald Duck instead of trying to hunt down the information.

Haven't seen anything to suggest Tinmug hates this country, Mirry2. She hates racists (perfectly reasonable view), hates the history of colonialism which this country has (to our collective shame - do I, as an almost indigenous white Briton, think tying people over canons following the Indian mutiny, or putting Boers in concentration camps, or playing a pivotal role in the triangular slave trade, or leaving large chunks of the population of Ireland to starve to death, were shameful events in our history? Hell yes!), but I see no evidence that she hates this country.

The current immigration isn't a stable figure though because quite often people will come over from other countries, find some work, and then go back home again when the work is finished.

Ths is why i tried to steer the thread in direction, but no one would listen, if only people have listened..........

I'm not defending bigotry nor making any reference to the English language or the OP's post about not hearing English voices.

I'm just saying that there are issues that immigration throws up and communities where there have been challenges but when people throw up anecdotes or experiences they immediately get flamed and labelled a bigot. That's all. As others have noted it makes for a slightly skewed conversation.

I hope no one is stating I'm racist.

YES in certain places immigrants DO mix but in certain places THEY DO NOT.

I've got friends who know people in Leicester etc and they mix but equally I know the people I mentioned in Bradford and Peterborough where THEY DO NOT MIX. Maybe it's different towns/cities and the immigrants don't feel happy mixing.

often I think there IS a language barrier hence not many people (English as well as immigrants) both to try and understand each other.

I used the word experiment because it was the easiest word to explain. Perhaps a more pc word is - 'unprecedented' or just 'socially unique'.

Er, well let's not forget it takes both sides to want to integrate for it to happen.

Some people seem to ignore the shameful way many (invited) immigrants of the 50s and 60s were treated by indigenous people when they speak of failure to integrate. And those immigrants were children of Empire with a similar education and in some instances culture and religion to people in Britain.

Bit rich being told you failed to integrate when you turned up and the local church of your denomination wouldn't have you as a congregant, the local private landlords wouldn't rent to you, the local police harassed and threatened you at every opportunity, fellow employees bullied you at work and people threw stones at your children on their way to school.

It is often those children (i.e. my generation) who were so angry at what their parents had experienced they turned their back on the very idea of trying to integrate any more.

It's still doesn't make it fact.

Hello, maybe the people in Peterborough aren't that friendly?

We have no problems with people mixing in Newcastle.

mirry2 "tinmug why are you here if you hate this country so much?". < same could be said for OP and the likes. Just Saying.

HelloBoys given by some of the attitudes shown on this thread by a small handful of posters. If I was an Immigrant I would be hesitant to mix too to be honest.

Quite, Misspixietrix. And the other really sad thing about all the deletions was that prior to HQ getting trigger-happy, it was clear that 90% of us thought the racists were total arseholes. Now it looks like there's a thread where about 30% of people were being racist (when in fact most of the deletions were for calling racists for what they are - arseholes).

I think you misunderstood my post, Wiliamina. I was pointing out that people who defend bigotry always seem to be pretty illiterate. Just as a side point.

And yes, you were defending bigotry. In an illiterate manner.

It's not people who live in multicultural areas that spout racist bollocks.

we live it,we know what it's like.

Our children go to school with children from all over the world.

It's ^normal¥ for them.