To still feel disturbed about this nursery.

[MrsDrRanj]

This has been bugging me on and off for years, one of those things where I feel like I should 'do' something because it just doesn't settle in my mind well.

5 years ago, when I was 17, I got an apprenticeship at a nursery through a training course. I'd never had a job, hadn't finished school and was recovering from a breakdown so it was a big deal to me. I was naive and very nervous.

Things happened while I was there that now really bother me, especially as a parent who may have to find a nursery for ds one day.

There was an incident with 2 other apprentices having a shouting match infront of pre school children, including calling eachother 'slags' etc. they were not fired and parents were not informed.

The manager came into the room I worked in and loudly discussed the children's progress infront of them, including declaring that a little boys speech wasn't as it should be and she had suspicions he was colour blind (right infront of the little boy who was 3)

One man punished a preschool boy who suffered with constipation for having an accident by forcing him into a nappy that was too small for him. The boy was screaming and in the end there was poo everywhere including the little boys hair. Another member of staff came and shouted at him but nothing else was done. (I have recently read in the news that this man has now been convicted with voyeurism and possessing indecent images of children which made me go cold)

When I was invited on a work dinner out the leader of the preschool room spent a lot of the night doing impersonations of the children, including taking the piss out of a little girl for not understanding much when English was not her first language.

In general the nursery was badly managed, people were bitchy and mean, apprentices were left in charge when they shouldn't have been etc and thankfully I didn't stay there long. But it still bothers me. The nursery is still running and though there's a chance the staff may have moved on there could also be the same people working there.

The nursery had been rated 'outstanding' by ofsted and was part of a high end chain of nurseries. It has left me terrified of putting DS in nursery as id be devastated if any of the above situations involved my child. I feel awful for not doing anything at the time but I was so inexperienced.

Would you do something now? And if so what? I don't want it to bug me forever I just can't seem to shake it from my mind.

Mine isn't on rate my nursery either. Doesn't mumsnet have something like this?

Kerwhizz, the phrase "Hair or care" gets referred to a lot in respect to what you said.

A job advisor of some kind doesn't know what the useless lump they're stuck with could possibly do, so they suggest hairdressing or childcare.

I thikn we should petition mn for this

Hair or care. Sounds about right thinking back to when we were at school. It's quite scary to think about.

I don't think mumsnet would do it because of litigation maybe? If someone posted about an incident that had happened and the nursery wanted it taken down.

It needs to be a totally separate site, like tripadvisor.

It is so lowly paid and so stretched financially and it has to be. Minimum wage is only £6.18 per hour, add in maybe 2 unpaid hours for travel and lunchbreak and childcare can take the whole of a person's wage. It took about 80% of mine. Luckily I was eligible for tax credits which helped.

DS' preschool had students come for placements and they were great, he got on well with almost all of them and they always smiled and waved when we bumped into them when out. They stayed for a good few weeks, maybe a couple of months.

I too have worked in nurseries and believe the OP.

There are some fabulous nurseries out there, however there are also some completely shit ones as well. I could tell within about half an hour of entering the building whether or not it was a good or "bad" one.

One incident that sticks in my head was at a council run one. Most of the staff were fine, but there was one member of staff who thought it was hilarious to make fun of the mother of a Chinese child we had because she couldn't speak English properly. She'd often do impressions of her which she clearly thought was hilarious, but was at best borderline racist. It was clear everyone else was uncomfortable with it, but no one ever spoke out about or challenged her.

Most nursery staff are very young. You rarely see nursery nurses over the age of 24/25. A lot of them go into it thinking it's an easy career, but it's not, you need a lot of patience to look after kids and not everyone is cut out for it. A lot lot them are far more interested in talking about their personal lives than watching the kids, that was something I encountered a lot.

so ciderbomb how could you tell within half an hour?

It's such a shame, there are lots of jobs that non-academic boys get herded into. Building/construction, carpentry, mechanics, plumbing. Interesting, valuable and a skill you can work off for life.

Girls get hair and beauty (unlikely to get very far if you're no good) and childcare, which is an utter shame and a disaster. It is valuable and can be interesting, but you have to be interested in the first place - and if you are then you're probably looking in that direction by yourself!

Careers advisors could do so much good but it seems they stick to lazy old stereotypes I suppose they don't get long enough with children at all to gain any kind of idea about what they would be like.

I don,t really agree that if wages were higher you would get better people working in nurseries. It is down to the managers to have a code of conduct that all staff adhere to and if they don't then they are warned and then sacked. Students should be placed in a nursery if that is what they fancy doing not because it is seen as an easy option.
staff will take the piss if the rules are not layed down at the beginning and poor behaviour acted upon.

I'm looking at nurseries this week. Hearing about what goes on is terrifying :( HOw would I know a childminder is even more trustworthy? The only one I know and trust doesn't have spaces until next september and I need a place in the next few weeks.

I loved the pre-school my eldest went to - nearly all mothers with grown up children themselves. I trusted them. They only do mornings though and I'm going back to work. It really scares me.

The thing is, even higher-paid workplaces can have a negative ethos that affects care, I have worked in doctors surgeries where the doctors (highly paid) are very dismissive and rude about their patients, and other ones where they were endlessly caring and respectful even about the most difficult ones. I guess the same is true in nurseries.

I am sorry to hear this about nurseries, I didn't use one for mine as I went to visit one near our house and for whatever reason, I found it awful, I couldn't even pin down why but the words the 'baby room' in which there were just far too many babies to be cared for properly was one of the main things- it wasn't homely and the babies weren't mixed in with the other children but just stuck in this room.

However, all my experiences of pre-schools in which there are loads of lower paid assistants are really positive, as is my experiences of teaching assistants, dinner ladies, school receptionists etc. In other words, it is not just pay driving this, but an ethos of caring, coupled with an expectation that everyone does their best for the children.

My gut instinct is actually right monkey. In a lot of places the staff were cold and bitchy as soon as I walked in, that was usually a pretty good indicator.

Those are good points about higher wages not improving the staff. I suppose you'd get people who were only in it for the money too :(

But at the moment the poor quality staff are unsackable in many nurseries because the nursery knows they can't attract good staff. And I've worked with many many great members of staff who left the profession just because they couldn't afford to stay in childcare.

As someone up tread said the best nurseries are the ones with the chipped paint and oldish toys, as you will find the money is spent on staff rather than the place looking good.

Shonajoy Whilst I agree that childcare is badly paid, parents already struggle to afford childcare as it is. Without parents paying even more on childcare, I don't see a feasible way to increase child carer's wages.

Is it really ok for me, a stranger, to just turn up unannounced? I was thinking of ringing in the morning to visit.

Surely they don't want every joe bloggs walking in off the street and need some system?

I guess you do get places only in it for the money but that's where OFSTED or the Local Authority "should" come in and sort the place out.

The problem is that practitioners always know when they are being watched.

I worked in a pre-school where the manager was vile to the children until the parents were around then she was sweetness and light.

I tried challenging her very poor practice and was told to mind my own business. I left because I had to move my DD to a different setting and I wrote a detailed complaint to Ofsted.

Ofsted visited, having arranged the visit in advance, saw her 'on show' behaviour and found no fault.

Luckily I told all the parents I know what I had observed and the pre-school shut down a year later due to low numbers. There is now a much better one on the same site.

I'm not scare-mongering. If I hadn't chosen to act no parent would have been any the wiser and children would still have been being bullied by this vile woman.

It happens and you can't tell it's going on as a parent unless you catch them unawares or your child's behaviour gives you a clue.

This thread is so depressing, as well as an eye opener. The majority view seems to be that nurseries, with some exceptions, provide sub standard care. It really would be good if MNetters could share nursery recommendations or ratings. Could we do it via Facebook?
I've posted twice on my local mn but its not a very active board unfortunately.

OTH I've been v happy with the nursery and childrens centre we've used to date. But we've moved and I'm looking again - with a heavy heart after reading the above

I have similar experience of awful staff and care but of a home for older people. Shocking. Also know someone who works in a nursery who says if people knew some of the things going on they would never leave their kids there, it has a great ofsted.

I think at the end of the day they are there to make a profit. It's just a job for low pay to some. Of course there are amazing staff who love children but if there becomes more bad staff than good standards can slip.

How can your friend keep working there and not do anything about it jelly? This is exactly why bad nurseries get away with it for so long.

would never ever in a million years put a child in a nursery.
And yes, obviously they're sweetness and light and professional to a tee when you drop off/pick up!

I did a placement in a nursery for a course. When I had ds some years before, I originally booked ds into a private nursery and then cancelled the place nearer the birth. At the time I became pretty anti-nursery overall.

The nursery I did a placement in was FANTASTIC. I was there for a week and didn't see a single thing that wasn't good, the children were loved and throve. It's a council nursery that has been going for decades with a really good age range of staff. Equipment and toys well cared for but also well worn.