To still feel disturbed about this nursery.

[MrsDrRanj]

This has been bugging me on and off for years, one of those things where I feel like I should 'do' something because it just doesn't settle in my mind well.

5 years ago, when I was 17, I got an apprenticeship at a nursery through a training course. I'd never had a job, hadn't finished school and was recovering from a breakdown so it was a big deal to me. I was naive and very nervous.

Things happened while I was there that now really bother me, especially as a parent who may have to find a nursery for ds one day.

There was an incident with 2 other apprentices having a shouting match infront of pre school children, including calling eachother 'slags' etc. they were not fired and parents were not informed.

The manager came into the room I worked in and loudly discussed the children's progress infront of them, including declaring that a little boys speech wasn't as it should be and she had suspicions he was colour blind (right infront of the little boy who was 3)

One man punished a preschool boy who suffered with constipation for having an accident by forcing him into a nappy that was too small for him. The boy was screaming and in the end there was poo everywhere including the little boys hair. Another member of staff came and shouted at him but nothing else was done. (I have recently read in the news that this man has now been convicted with voyeurism and possessing indecent images of children which made me go cold)

When I was invited on a work dinner out the leader of the preschool room spent a lot of the night doing impersonations of the children, including taking the piss out of a little girl for not understanding much when English was not her first language.

In general the nursery was badly managed, people were bitchy and mean, apprentices were left in charge when they shouldn't have been etc and thankfully I didn't stay there long. But it still bothers me. The nursery is still running and though there's a chance the staff may have moved on there could also be the same people working there.

The nursery had been rated 'outstanding' by ofsted and was part of a high end chain of nurseries. It has left me terrified of putting DS in nursery as id be devastated if any of the above situations involved my child. I feel awful for not doing anything at the time but I was so inexperienced.

Would you do something now? And if so what? I don't want it to bug me forever I just can't seem to shake it from my mind.

Empire- trust your instincts, do your research carefully, pick somewhere which is totally comfortable with you dropping in announced and finally do NOT listen to the scaremongering on MN from people who were happy to work in nurseries for years and then turn round later and talk about how shit they were. It says more about them really. Of course there are some poor nurseries around, like there are poor schools, hospitals, and people who do a piss poor job of parenting fgs. It does not mean your child will be harmed!

smudge

I have also complained to Ofstead about various places I have had the mis fortune of seeing and yes there were not interested,

it has been admitted now, they are not a fit inspection body, so what is making these business toe the line? what is their motivation?

There is little.

Janey

Its not scaremongering, what a horrible thing to say.

This always happens when people have worked in some nurseries and seen the other side tell their side, and tell the truth then they get shouted down and you wonder why they are scared to come forward?

I work in a setting, it's the only setting I have worked in and I thank my stars that none of the things I'm hearing happen at my place - I couldn't work in a place where I had to leave my empathy and conscience at the door. I am not disputing that these things happen, I'm sure they do but I just wanted to post and say that they are not universal, there are some places where the children are treated with love and respect.

Nurseries rely on cheap, young, unqualified staff. For a decent qualified person you could get 3 youngsters you can put on a day release course and pay them £2.60 per hour. I wouldn't trust any nursery that has less than two thirds of the staff level 3 qualified.

Not that a modern level 3 qualification means much.

-TiggyD NNEB

Yonis- it's either scaremongering, or a sign of having been quite comfortable to take the wages for bad practice- as odd boots says, leaving your empathy and conscience at the door. Which frankly, is worse.

Janey I think that is incredibly unfair. I was very young when I worked in nurseries, I started at 17. I did question some things with management but I wasn't listened to. I have worked in fantastic charity pre schools and school nurseries but all of the day nurseries I have worked in have been poor.

I'd report. I could never put DD in a nursery after working in one as a teenager.

Ps oddboots - yes, thank goodness there are great nurseries around with people like you who really do the job well. My children are teenagers now and still have fond memories of their key workers

Thinking about the good places I've worked in, they all had something in common. Tatty looking paintwork, old well worn chairs, and some very old toys and equipment. Maybe they're good things to look for? Maybe it means they're more concerned about how things work for the children as opposed to how things appear to parents?

I always look closely at the attendees- are they happy, engrossed, are the ones that are niggly being cuddled?

we looked at a lot of nurseries before choosing, always unannounced, and the one we chose was lovely, and both my children were very very happy there. You knew the staff really cared about the children- 90% of staff were 30 or over, in fact some had been there 20 years. They had a wealth of experience, and really loved working with children (thank goodness)

Jayney68 that's not the point I'm making. It's not relevant how much you earn, it's how much these people get paid. Looks at the horrific comments in this thread and people who are properly trained and working for dreadful wages- do you really expect people to put their ALL into any job if they feel undervalued and underpaid?

They aren't there to say ok you're going to be tight this month we will knock money off- they are purely a business, like elderly care homes. They have the smallest amount of qualified staff- not because they want to care for people, but because they can be under qualified for other jobs.

nurseries caring for a child from 8am-6pm means effectively they're doing the majority of the caring for the child during the week, damn right their wages should be increased dramatically, otherwise we can carry on to expect babies left crying, falling, and generally benign neglect.

I'm a primary teacher, have worked in schools and nurseries, observed and assessed childminders and advised childrens centres. ( just to show I have some experience) Most nurseries I have been in are good and provide a secure and positive environment. Yes, there have also been a few that didn't meet my standards but got good or outstanding from ofsted.

Always go by word of mouth, ask how long staff have been there - this usually shows a good staff / management relationship - the longer the better. The nursery should always be happy to welcome you in when you turn up unexpected ( which you should), a good mix of young and older staff is good and none of the staff should be stood around chatting.

It makes me so very sad and very angry that there are still so many appalling nurseries out there. I manage a nursery, it not outstanding according to Ofsted but every child is loved, cherished and looked after.

Recruiting staff at the moment and the quality of staff coming for interview is poor. No way near as good as a few years ago.

So what is the alternative then? A nanny? You have no idea what's happening there when you're not about and how is a childminder any safer than a nursery? Genuine question.

There is one right next to the lower half of my grandfather's garden and one on the way back from our local supermarket. Each time I have been near either and the children are outside, the staff are sitting outside chatting to each other and the kids are pretty much left to their own devices. Frankly though, given their wages (same minimum or near to minimum wage here in Australia), I don't blame them. DS used to come back from his (different centre)with unexplained bruises and I rarely asked why as I'm sure it was similar there. However, they were probably more involved when the children were inside and I never felt that he was bring actively neglected . You can build fantastic facilities, have all the correct procedures and staff requirements but the truth is, you can't continue to pay staff low amounts and have them feel that investing their emotional/physical energies into providing top quality care is worthwhile. I can also see why they would advise new staff , especially males, not to hug and cuddle due to fears of litigation.

hardboiled

SAME HERE, i WAS 18 when worked in old folks home, very naive and I was left to do lots of things I had no training for, the manager was nice but totally dominated by ONE family who had the strangle hold on all the jobs there .

One other sweet girl who cared started and she too was treated dreadfully by the other staff for actually caring. Both she and I started to see eye to eye and we shared our concerns with the manager.

the next day we were attacked in a huge meeting she left and I hung on for a few more weeks.

after seeing winterbourne view I had a better understanding how one bad egg can rule the roost and set the tone.

with weak management or the manager themselves being rotten, it does not matter how much you plough into other areas.

I then complained to Ofsted who were not interested, I wrote to local council, no response and finally I contacted the Times about it a few years ago when they were doing something on the terrors of old folks homes.

Can we start reviewing nurseries right here?

monkeynuts123 there are a couple of sites, ratemynursery is one of them

I think by law anywhere that is running a place for profit that involves the care of our vulnerable should have a clear and accessible trip advisor feedback system.

my main complaint was with how the baby room was run so I was moved to a toddler room instead. I was actually threatened by a girl in the baby room after I made my complaint but that was also ignored.

Ds started at a nursery aged just 3 (they took babies from 6months though) and it was supposedly outstanding. The staff were very young and I sensed after just wanted the children to leave them alone so they could chat and text.
It was pretty bad. Ds was very unhappy. At first we thought it was just separation anxiety but as time went on and he repeated some things that had been said to him it became clear that something was badly wrong.

We pulled him after a term and moved him to a preschool. He was absolutely fine from day 1, no issues at all. There is no doubt in my mind that there was something very wrong with the ethos in the nursery and I wish I'd moved him immediately. It really dented his confidence and he started to carry around a comfort toy all the time. As soon as we took him out that stopped.

Just looked at ratemynursery. Out of the nearest 80 nurseries to me, there was only one review. And that sort of site can be easily manipulated.

What can we do?

Bring back daycare advisors to help nurseries improve.

Let the daycare advisors inspect with an Ofsted inspector to write up a joint report.

Inspections more than every 4 years.

At the moment a complaint against Ofsted is dealt with by...Ofsted! Stop that.

Bring back a decent qualification and insist that most staff have to have it.

Let nurseries charge top up fees so the good ones don't have to make a loss on 'free places'.

Stop sending your children to bad nurseries. (Although I realise we won't find out who the bad nurseries are until inspections actually work.)

I think it's wrong that two very important jobs (childcare and care of the elderly) are often suggested to teenagers who aren't getting good qualifications and don't give a shit in general. When I worked in a nursery, we had local students coming for placements and the majority were awful. They sat down practically ignoring the children and couldn't look more bored if they'd tried. The last girl dragged a boy across the floor by the top of his nappy and trousers (she was sent packing and was the final straw so the placements ended).

It's sad that its such low paid work too. I know it's business etc but if they had higher wages, there'd be better staff.