to think BIL is a cheeky bugger and a chip off the old block?

[JackSparrow]

There is a lot of back story here, so this could be long, sorry.

My PIL are toxic. Pretty hideous stuff, and I have no contact with them. The dc haven't seen them for about 4 years, i think, apart from the odd brief chat on Skype (has maybe happened 3 times in total), following a huge row at their golden wedding celebration (when I say at, I mean around the time, not brawling at the actual party!)

So, earlier this year, PIL started making noises about MIL's 80th birthday next Easter. Apparently she has never had a big birthday bash (FIL has had several), and FIL thought it would be nice for her to have a party. So far so good.

Of course, it isn't that easy, and to cut a long story short, FIL wanted dh and his brothers to pay for the party. It is their duty apparently . Not just any party, mind you, but she wanted a long weekend in London, at a private club, with relatives/friends flown over from Europe (at dh's/BIL's expense ), put up at the club, formal dinner, plus sightseeing tours and experiences (and other meals obviously). Stupid amount of money that we don't have to spare. To top it all off, when dh and I mentioned that this didn't really suit our family (we have 5 dc between us, 2 learning disabled, the other 3 too young to enjoy this kind of weekend, so not suitable for any of them - they make up a third of the grandchildren), and suggested a couple of alterations to make it bearable (theatre instead of one activity, afternoon tea at the Ritz/other posh hotel instead of one of the formal meals), FIL threw his toys out of the pram, said it was his way or no way at all, and that it wasn't about our children (true, but who did he want to pay? ah yes, us.). Cue MIL phoning us up, crying lots about us spoiling it all, saying she would have to see 'our lot' another weekend (she has never met our youngest child, and is showing no inclination to want to do so), and still expecting dh to foot a third of the bill, despite only him being able to attend.

Anyway, another big-ish row followed, and the upshot was that the party was cancelled (or at least stopped being discussed openly).

This weekend we received an email from BIL (dh's older brother, not the closest of relationships, but cordial enough at the moment).

He is proposing the following:

At some point next summer (a date conveniently coinciding with a big birthday of his ), the family should:

have a Thursday/Friday in London - dinner, theatre for whoever wants to go (ostensibly to celebrate MIL's birthday 3 months earlier)
then everyone back to theirs (huge house) on the Friday, for a formal dinner for MIL's birthday (marquee in garden, for 20 max, apparently - this is odd, as with all brothers and grandchildren, numbers reach 18, so presumably just family - why the marquee?)

On Saturday a BBQ, and local circus for those who want to.

Then, andthis is the bit where I immediately thought 'cheeky sod' - Saturday night, a party for around 100, in the marquee, to celebrate BIL's birthday.

BIL wants the costs shared, as it is for MIL too.

AIBU to think that BIL has just tacked on the bits for MIL (considering family would be there anyway if he had a party on the Saturday), mentioned the circus etc to make it seem like a weekend of events, when in fact he wants everyone else to stump up for his birthday party? He is just as bad as PIL, isn't he? (well, to be fair, he hasn't actively banned young children, and has considered them in his plan, so not quite as bad). He has been upfront and said he can't afford a party by himself, so won;t have one if we don't agree to share costs, but I am still left with thinking 'why would we pay for this?'

What an unpleasant bunch they sound, thankfully your DH seems the best of the bunch by a country mile.

they manage to make it sound as though we are trying to get everything to revolve around our children as opposed to themselves, who try to get everything paid for by their DCs, notably your DH!

I would wex

My initial reaction is that you should pay nothing at all but if your DH insists then I think it needs to be a capped sum eg £500. Otherwise the costs will spiral out of control if you agree to pay one-third or one-sixth.

But it might be worth pointing out to your DH that whatever he does, his family will still view him badly so why bother contributing anything?

Sorry for previous post, pressed post too soon.
Anyway wanted to say that I have experience of this with my husband's family, although not on the wildly egotistical and entitled scale of your in laws.

My husband has always been harangued about coughing up for his nieces and nephews and his gifts have never been appreciated, have been openly scrutinized, sneered at and unappreciated by his older sis and bro and yet when they remember to send anything to our dcs (born about 10 after sil and bil's kids) it's the cheapest of the cheap. We really wouldn't mind that in itself, except that my H is expected to spend a lot on their kids and he gets grief from them and accusations of being tight etc if it's not up to what THEY think he should spend. So it's the hypocrisy/double standards that bother us.

My husband knows now that nothing we do will ever change their perception of him, or their inability to apply their own standards to themselves.

So we don't try anymore. We give what we can and put thought into it and that's it. No more angst.

So I understand how hard it is for your DH to break out of that mould. However the sooner he starts standing his ground, and being firm about everything with them, the sooner they will get used to it and he may just find that the pressure eases off over time, although it may take a couple of years. If he can become as selfish about protecting himself from their unreasonable demands as they are about making them, he will be speaking a language they can understand and he may be respected more for it (ie they might stop harassing him/adjust their expectations of what he will put up with).

I think that the people who want the wedding, oops sorry, party - should of course pay for it themselves. But if Dh just can't go that hardline, well then a contribution of whatever you feel comfortable with towards MIL's party is perfectly reasonable and still shows willing, but crucially, on your (DH's) terms. And he should not engage with all the emails and histrionics and just reiterate his offer and leave it at that. If he is somewhat distanced from them anyway then he won't have to suffer too many personal encounters where they can make digs about his stance.

And by the way, THEY are conveniently casting HIM in the role of the bad guy, party pooper, tight wad etc. Portraying him as such absolves them from all responsibility for their own egotistical behaviour and over the top demands.

He should reject this role and refuse to play into their manipulative hands. He must not allow himself to be 'made' to feel like the bad guy and should carve out his own role now, not too late to reinvent himself within his family as the brother who will NOT be disrespected or manipulated or guilt tripped.

Good luck op.

Jesus Christ. Take the money you'd spend on that bloody circus of a party and get your DH some therapy.

I too have toxic parents (am trying to go NC) but this is a whole new level of abuse & manipulation. Your DH needs to see that he has a family and to stop upsetting them by trying to please some utterly cruel, grabby bastards.

The thing I can't get my head round is that these grandiose plans don't appear to be costed. Is there a budget or a plan?

While I really think they should pay for their own party, they aren't asking for a specific amount. I would have thought the only possible answer is how much do you want us to contribute? Ok x amount is too much, we can afford y.

At the moment they seem to be trying to guilt your dh into a blank cheque.

Even to pay £500 - that's two months mortgage for me!!!

no way!! Let him pay for his own party!!!

Surely with any party you start with budget and then make plans, not make some fantasy list of wants and desires and then start trying to grab money from others to pay for it.

I personally wouldn't give them a penny but if you really can't change your dh's mind then I agree with the suggestion to just offer a set amount and then they can take it or leave it.

Laugh your head off and tell 'em you aint their personal bank.

500 pounds! My goodness, that's a lot of money! But even 50 would be pushing it, they seem amazingly entitled to me.

You can want glamorous parties but if you can't afford it, you can't have one. These family ties don't come cheap. Isn't there a recession on?

£500 pounds was just a random suggestion by a poster.

Looking at the things suggested, I think £500 would be getting off quite lightly:

Dinner - 10 people at £30 per head: £300
Theatre - 10 people at £30 per head: £300
Marquee - £500 for a cheap one
Food for dinner - £100
Wine for dinner - £100
Food for BBQ - £50
Wine for BBQ - £50

That is £1400 at very conservative estimates so her DH's share would be £700 for starters.

If he does want to contribute, offer a cash sum that you are willing to spend. He can then go up alone for the formal dinner and return home, you all then go to the BBQ and circus.

Sorry, didn't realise it was a suggestion. And I did rtft:)

Reminds me of that old joke - I'll pay the band to stop playing"

Thursday in London - dinner, theatre for whoever wants to go (ostensibly to celebrate MIL's birthday 3 months earlier)
Dinner in west end hotel plus theatre and drinks - £150 per head
Hotel - £200- £300
So that's £500 for the OP and her DH

then everyone back to theirs (huge house) on the Friday, for a formal dinner for MIL's birthday (marquee in garden, for 20 max, apparently - this is odd, as with all brothers and grandchildren, numbers reach 18, so presumably just family - why the marquee?)

Marquee (that will hold 100) circa £3000 I'm assuming 3 brothers so thats £1000

Food, catered and served plus booze on Friday - circa £80-£100 pp incl VAT and a birthday cake =
I estimate £2000 for 20 and probably more

On Saturday a BBQ, and local circus for those who want to.
Again catered and staffed -
£50 pp plus circus at circa £15 pp = £400
Hotel and babysitting for OP's 5 children x two nights - circa £500 incl meals.

BIL's birthday. £0 but gift at £100

So, by my estimates without funding any relatives to fly in the OP and her DH are looking at circa £3000 - £3500 by the time MIL and FIL's night out in London is sponsored plus a pressie for MIL.

OP - Run, run like the wind

Update ?