to think BIL is a cheeky bugger and a chip off the old block?

[JackSparrow]

There is a lot of back story here, so this could be long, sorry.

My PIL are toxic. Pretty hideous stuff, and I have no contact with them. The dc haven't seen them for about 4 years, i think, apart from the odd brief chat on Skype (has maybe happened 3 times in total), following a huge row at their golden wedding celebration (when I say at, I mean around the time, not brawling at the actual party!)

So, earlier this year, PIL started making noises about MIL's 80th birthday next Easter. Apparently she has never had a big birthday bash (FIL has had several), and FIL thought it would be nice for her to have a party. So far so good.

Of course, it isn't that easy, and to cut a long story short, FIL wanted dh and his brothers to pay for the party. It is their duty apparently . Not just any party, mind you, but she wanted a long weekend in London, at a private club, with relatives/friends flown over from Europe (at dh's/BIL's expense ), put up at the club, formal dinner, plus sightseeing tours and experiences (and other meals obviously). Stupid amount of money that we don't have to spare. To top it all off, when dh and I mentioned that this didn't really suit our family (we have 5 dc between us, 2 learning disabled, the other 3 too young to enjoy this kind of weekend, so not suitable for any of them - they make up a third of the grandchildren), and suggested a couple of alterations to make it bearable (theatre instead of one activity, afternoon tea at the Ritz/other posh hotel instead of one of the formal meals), FIL threw his toys out of the pram, said it was his way or no way at all, and that it wasn't about our children (true, but who did he want to pay? ah yes, us.). Cue MIL phoning us up, crying lots about us spoiling it all, saying she would have to see 'our lot' another weekend (she has never met our youngest child, and is showing no inclination to want to do so), and still expecting dh to foot a third of the bill, despite only him being able to attend.

Anyway, another big-ish row followed, and the upshot was that the party was cancelled (or at least stopped being discussed openly).

This weekend we received an email from BIL (dh's older brother, not the closest of relationships, but cordial enough at the moment).

He is proposing the following:

At some point next summer (a date conveniently coinciding with a big birthday of his ), the family should:

have a Thursday/Friday in London - dinner, theatre for whoever wants to go (ostensibly to celebrate MIL's birthday 3 months earlier)
then everyone back to theirs (huge house) on the Friday, for a formal dinner for MIL's birthday (marquee in garden, for 20 max, apparently - this is odd, as with all brothers and grandchildren, numbers reach 18, so presumably just family - why the marquee?)

On Saturday a BBQ, and local circus for those who want to.

Then, andthis is the bit where I immediately thought 'cheeky sod' - Saturday night, a party for around 100, in the marquee, to celebrate BIL's birthday.

BIL wants the costs shared, as it is for MIL too.

AIBU to think that BIL has just tacked on the bits for MIL (considering family would be there anyway if he had a party on the Saturday), mentioned the circus etc to make it seem like a weekend of events, when in fact he wants everyone else to stump up for his birthday party? He is just as bad as PIL, isn't he? (well, to be fair, he hasn't actively banned young children, and has considered them in his plan, so not quite as bad). He has been upfront and said he can't afford a party by himself, so won;t have one if we don't agree to share costs, but I am still left with thinking 'why would we pay for this?'

JackSparrow, to me, it wouldn't matter which children were "acceptable" to be included, if it's a family party that means all of the family- especially when you are being asked to pay.

it sounds to me that they want a big fancy weekend, without any pesky kids in the way and they don't want to foot the bill either.

YellowDinosaur - that's what I said. Since the Friday night would be family only, we won't need the marquee. We could all fit on BIL's house (it would be a squash, but in all fairness other BIL won't go, so that's 5 out of the equation anyway!). But BIL has already said he can't afford it if we don't contribute. So it falls to dh to be the one stuffing it all up again (so damned unreasonable to not want to pay for other people's parties!)

TinLegs - I am ok with saying no. I am already saying no. dh is wavering.

it sounds to me that they want a big fancy weekend, without any pesky kids in the way and they don't want to foot the bill either.

this is it. exactly.

by the time of MIL's party, she still won't have met dc3. he is 2. and yet she still insists that she doesn't want to consider children at all. with this in mind, I just think 'fuck you, then' - how can you call it a family party if you don't want to see (or hear ) half the family?!

Worried - we haven't talked actual sums yet, but they want:

at least 8 relatives and friends flown over from Europe, hotel paid.
private club hire for a long weekend, for them and rest of family.
balck tie dinner one night.
2 sightseeing/cultural events for all attendees (immediate family and those from Europe)
other meals as and when.

plus presents, naturally

it would easily run into thousands.

How much is BIL looking for ?
I totally can see why you want to say No, heck I totally agree with you, but your MIL is 80 and whilst the whole shindig is around BIL rather than her, I can sort of see why your DH is torn on it.

Cross posted - no those are ridiculous figures. I thought it was just the cost for the marquee.

BIL is wanting:

marquee hire
live music all weekend (at MIL's dinner, Saturday afternoon at BBQ and Saturday evening at his party)
food and wine all weekend (formal dinner - probably catered since in a marquee, so expensive, BBQ food, brunch on Sunday. Wine/booze to be added in, again none of it cheap, and the cynic n me thinks it will be more expensive if dh agrees to contribute)
catering/waiting/bar staff.

circus is pay if you go (fair enough, and will probably be just us. again, fair enough)

the theatre/dinner in London has not yet been specified, but wasn't mentioned as a pay if you go, so probably wants contributions ofr that, plus hotel costs. have just checked and this is still a private club, not hotel. he still mentions inviting some relatives from Europe (presumably at our cost - again, not specified).

so not a vast difference, in all reality. just not all based in London at a private club (although this still creeps in).

by the time it has all been made 'nice' (eg luxury marquee, not bog standard; 'proper' tables/chairs/decorations to make it a decent setting for MIL's dinner and BIL's big birthday, 'decent' wine by the crate since they don't ahve to be careful over bottle prices, etc) if we get change from £5k we'd be lucky, I reckon.

x-posts. my other list was what PIL orginally wanted.

my recent list is what BIL wants. his party is to be for around 100, apparently. I would assume free bar, as this is 'standard' at our parties (or at least at the ones where dh pays ). so far from cheaper option, given that the original list from PIL would 'only' run to about 30 max.

"Sorry, that doesn't work for us."

So if bil can't afford what amounts to his own party, he doesn't have one.

Your dh isn't stuffing it up. His family are stuffing it up by having unrealistic expectations beyond their budgets and need to get out of the habit of planning lavish celebrations they cannot afford.

Tell mil you'll take her out for dinner for her birthday with your own family. Decline to share the costs of any joint celebrations regardless of emotional blackmail.

I have a totally non dsyfunctional family. DH and I are reasonably well off. There is no way I would consider contributing such a lot to my DM or MIL's party! (and crucially, they would never ask me to).

I enjoy treating my DM and MIL. But I would pay for a weekend for an extended family even on I loved and that appreciated me (unlike your DH's family!)

Why on earth is your DH even contemplating it? Money cannot buy you happiness and in this case, money cannot buy you a loving, caring family.

Your inlaws sound almost like caricatures, the "greedy nasty family"

I would counter offer to all meet for a meal (forget London and go somewhere nice instead) with a cake for each birthday, cost split in proprtion to the numbers attending.

OK. This is what I would agree to pay.
One third of the cost of the Thursday/Friday in London (dinner an theatre only NOT flights and hotel costs)
One third of one night hire for the marque (so one sixth of the total). I know its probably not necessary for the Friday night meal but it is his house and you can't insist he squeeze people in.
One third of cost of catering Friday night meal and the BBQ on Sat.
Own tickets for circus.
Fuck all for Sat night party.

To my mind that is incredibly generous. It would be a one time none negotiable offer.

friday, we tried that.

MIL cried. FIL called up dh and bollocked him for making his mother cry, and then got angry when dh stood firm. upshot was the whole hting was called off (yay!). but then BIL was angry with dh, as if handled differently, apparently we could have talked them round (doubtful).

all went quiet, and now this from BIL.

which leaves dh being the one who cancels it all again. and he doesn't want to be the bad guy. he doesn't want ot be the one the rest of the family gripes about. and he doesn't want to be permanently known as tight-fisted (which is what they would all say). but that doesn't make it right for him to foot the bill.

Just read this in disbelief.

Surely the thing to do would be to tot up all the audit activities, email all parties who want to attend, with the cost, and everyone pay their own. I find it hard to believe adults in the family expect you to stump up for them, these people flying in from locations across Europe! And your BIL! Does he think you are stupid? I suppose he wants a present as well.

I can see its her 80th, but perhaps you could say owing to costs, you will come up to London for the circus and afternoon tea, with a small gift, perhaps a lovely framed pic of you and the dc:). And that's it.

I'm afraid if she won't go for that- well, the family is fractured already, they are clearly not interested and throwing cash at it won't help. That money is for your dc and you in times of struggle, and you don't know what's round the corner. It won't be help from them, will it?

She has ignored you for years then wants a party? Would anyone actually turn up? Oh, that's right, they haven't had to pay themselves!

"But BIL has already said he can't afford it if we don't contribute."

So, he can't afford it.

There's no if about it, really imo.

There's lots of things I'd like to do.

But I can't afford them.

And wouldn't try to dress it up as something for someone else, either!

"which leaves dh being the one who cancels it all again."

No he's not.

The others can go ahead without him.

" he doesn't want ot be the one the rest of the family gripes about. and he doesn't want to be permanently known as tight-fisted (which is what they would all say). but that doesn't make it right for him to foot the bill."

He needs to get over caring what they think tbh.

It's not tight fisted to not want to fund an adult's bday celebration.

Did he fund his own?

Yes?

Well then his parents & sibling are quite capable of doing the same.

Pendeen, we tried that. Suggested a central meet point (we are all in different corners of the UK) for a nice weekend away/lovely celebration meal.

The suggestion was lost in the general foot-stamping over the loss of the original plans.

I know dh isn't responsible for stuffing it all up. BUt he feels as though he is. and they are good at making him feel that way. add in some filial guilt/feelings of duty, and you can see why he is where he is wrt paying.

we can't 'just' take MIL out for dinner as they live at the other end of the country. they are not welcome to stay in my house (much longer story!), so we can't invite them down here without paying hotel costs. we could visit them, but not stay with them (will not have my children staying in their house), but they live in a ridiculously expensive place for holiday accomodation, uniquely with virtually nothing for children to do within an hours radius (think hunting, shooting, fishing country).

LayMeDOwn - that is the kind of costs I was thinking. BIL and PIL are still set on 1/3 of total (and we haven't seen the guest list yet, so who knows how many flights that would be!)

apparently we need to decide asap, so a save-the-date card can be sent before CHristmas (no pressure then!)

Why does it have to be so lavish? If the point is that it's a family party why can't everyone bring food contributions to eat as a buffet in the marquee and their own costs for meals out and tickets to events?

For my Granny's 90th we did this in the village hall. Cost £15 for each adult and free for kids. Plus food contributions. It was a fab low key family day where everyone was welcome.

If you can afford the lavish treat everyone stuff then that's fine. But they can't.

I'm with the poster who said they wouldn't do this for family they are close to. Never mind people who treat you like this.

I agree with whoever said that if you can't afford your own party, you don't have one.

Absolutely no chance I'd be forking out for any of this. Ever.

It is hard to be the naysayer, but surely less dispiriting than being used as a family cash till by people who don't otherwise care about seeing you?

This smacks to me of 'Hello son/bro, I have no respect for you but I love your money. Cough up or face whining and guilt-trips.'

To which the only self-respecting answer is 'No thanks, have fun without me!'

diddl, I am nodding along in agreement with everyhting you say. I say it myself. BUt then, they are not my family, iyswim.

dh is struggling with the final cutting of ties. I don't know why. they are vile, not interested in us at all.

lavender - "Would anyone actually turn up? Oh, that's right, they haven't had to pay themselves". Quite. dh has already said he is not interested in paying for anyone to come over from Europe (to be fair, i don't think those relatives are expecting to be paid for, although wouldn't turn it down if offered , but PIL are probably worried they won't come if they aren't paid for - speaks volumes, eh?)

yes, of course dh paid for his own party. and the foreign relatives came over for that (some stayed with us to cut costs, and were welcome)

Decision = NO.

What about:

"Great, thank you for organising this. We were going to spend about £150 [change as appropriate] on your present and MIL combined so we will send you the cheque about two week ahead of the event. Brrr, how cold it the winter this year...[change subject]".

Repeat ad nauseam.

I wouldn't be answering the phone to listen to the backlash either. This isn't what normal families do. Your OH does know that doesn't he? It isn't normal to behave like this towards each other. He doesn't have to pick up the phone and he doesn't have to take this crap from them. They sound like a vile bunch of arse holes.