to think BIL is a cheeky bugger and a chip off the old block?

[JackSparrow]

There is a lot of back story here, so this could be long, sorry.

My PIL are toxic. Pretty hideous stuff, and I have no contact with them. The dc haven't seen them for about 4 years, i think, apart from the odd brief chat on Skype (has maybe happened 3 times in total), following a huge row at their golden wedding celebration (when I say at, I mean around the time, not brawling at the actual party!)

So, earlier this year, PIL started making noises about MIL's 80th birthday next Easter. Apparently she has never had a big birthday bash (FIL has had several), and FIL thought it would be nice for her to have a party. So far so good.

Of course, it isn't that easy, and to cut a long story short, FIL wanted dh and his brothers to pay for the party. It is their duty apparently . Not just any party, mind you, but she wanted a long weekend in London, at a private club, with relatives/friends flown over from Europe (at dh's/BIL's expense ), put up at the club, formal dinner, plus sightseeing tours and experiences (and other meals obviously). Stupid amount of money that we don't have to spare. To top it all off, when dh and I mentioned that this didn't really suit our family (we have 5 dc between us, 2 learning disabled, the other 3 too young to enjoy this kind of weekend, so not suitable for any of them - they make up a third of the grandchildren), and suggested a couple of alterations to make it bearable (theatre instead of one activity, afternoon tea at the Ritz/other posh hotel instead of one of the formal meals), FIL threw his toys out of the pram, said it was his way or no way at all, and that it wasn't about our children (true, but who did he want to pay? ah yes, us.). Cue MIL phoning us up, crying lots about us spoiling it all, saying she would have to see 'our lot' another weekend (she has never met our youngest child, and is showing no inclination to want to do so), and still expecting dh to foot a third of the bill, despite only him being able to attend.

Anyway, another big-ish row followed, and the upshot was that the party was cancelled (or at least stopped being discussed openly).

This weekend we received an email from BIL (dh's older brother, not the closest of relationships, but cordial enough at the moment).

He is proposing the following:

At some point next summer (a date conveniently coinciding with a big birthday of his ), the family should:

have a Thursday/Friday in London - dinner, theatre for whoever wants to go (ostensibly to celebrate MIL's birthday 3 months earlier)
then everyone back to theirs (huge house) on the Friday, for a formal dinner for MIL's birthday (marquee in garden, for 20 max, apparently - this is odd, as with all brothers and grandchildren, numbers reach 18, so presumably just family - why the marquee?)

On Saturday a BBQ, and local circus for those who want to.

Then, andthis is the bit where I immediately thought 'cheeky sod' - Saturday night, a party for around 100, in the marquee, to celebrate BIL's birthday.

BIL wants the costs shared, as it is for MIL too.

AIBU to think that BIL has just tacked on the bits for MIL (considering family would be there anyway if he had a party on the Saturday), mentioned the circus etc to make it seem like a weekend of events, when in fact he wants everyone else to stump up for his birthday party? He is just as bad as PIL, isn't he? (well, to be fair, he hasn't actively banned young children, and has considered them in his plan, so not quite as bad). He has been upfront and said he can't afford a party by himself, so won;t have one if we don't agree to share costs, but I am still left with thinking 'why would we pay for this?'

They might not be your family, but they expect family money even though they treat you like shit?

Surely you get a say for that reason?

I hope your husband manages to say no-& to not attend.

Two weeks ahead of the event.

LAvish is what dh's family do (especially if someone else is paying!)

it's jsut all so weird. to be fair to MIL, when we had dc1's christening party at home, she came down, pitched in all weekend - cooked dinner for all family and godparents on the night before (spent all day in the kitchen, bless her) - a total of 25. we had a blast. we were all squashed in, but had sucha fab time - a bit like your Granny's 90th, YellowDinosaur, and all about the celebration, not the cost, or the venue, or the food etc (which is what I wanted it to be). I don't know why we can't do somehting like that (well, not at our house as they aren't welcome, currently)

Eldritch - when we said no, they cancelled the plans . so dh was blmed for being the difficult one, trying to make it all about our dc, etc etc. and he doesn't want to be the one on the wrong.

he's going to end up paying, isn't he?

They clearly think you are made of money. Is there any way you could make it clear that you aren't?

He already is in the wrong as they have cancelled the original plans.

He will I suspect continue to be in the wrong whatever he does now.

I have awful pils too, but yours are worse!

bil doesn't get to dictate the new plans. Dh has just as much say. If you are unable to go for whatever reasons that is ok. (we have this sort of crap with my pils. Last year they didn't speak to us for 3 months because we chose not to go for Christmas lunch at 1pm)

Dh (if he wishes) could perhaps book a more modest meal that is accessible to everyone (children, all ages, people with disabilities). Set the date, book for you, dh and your immediate family. Invite the others and ask them to reply by x date. Say you will pay for a drink each or some such offer, it is not for you to pay everything for everyone.

Well, maybe ask your DH why it is ok to put your nose out of joint by paying, his loving wife, but not ok to put the unpleasant exploitative birth family's noses out of joint by not paying. He's just taking the line of least resistance. It's not even the 'right' thing to do.

Easy to say, I know. My DH is nc with his family now, and suffers from guilt and, odd as it sounds, a kind of shame that his family is so dysfunctional and not nice to him. He dreads the routine social questions about parents and siblings. But nc is still better than the cruel pretence and exploitation he got being in contact (PIL were very keen on having trips to see us paid for by us, because they apparently had no cash. Except when they wanted to see or treat their other, golden child, of course).

It's a horrid mess, I do sympathise.

they could come round to our house, breatheslowly. with the rundown bathrooms, windows (literally) falling out of frames. a kitchen like something you'd find in an unmodernised 1920s house.

dh earns well, but he spends it too (shock horror! and not on his parents!) - school fees, university for the older two, the odd holiday, plus extra costs due to disabilities/equipment/therapies we ahve had to fund.

we live a good life, and clearly could find the money if we had to (we did for dh's party, after all, and probably will for my 40th in 18 months time), but it's the railroading and money-grabbing side that doens't sit well.

OMG I am at the cheek of your PIL and BIL.

It is not normal to tell someone else to pay for your own party! Even in functional families! If someone offers to contribute then that is lovely but you don't ask!

I appreciate that your DH feels guilty and wants to try and play happy families but he needs to say no. Spending thousands on celebrations (for people you hardly see and which you wont be able to attend) will mean you and your kids go without. Your DH should be spending the money on things for you and your kids instead.

Good luck with it all, it sounds like a nightmare.

PS FIL just had a big birthday. He and MIL organised an open house party at theirs on the day which they paid for and invited their friends/family/kids. We then invited PIL out for lunch the following day for which we paid. I think that is how it is supposed to work................!

Your DH's family are bullies.

Eldritch, no contact would suit me fine. and to be fair to dh, he has really cut down on contact too. and is much better than he used to be.

but he feels the same guilt and shame. and gets really hung up on the fact that it might be the last itme we see them, etc (or it might not - they might go on another 20 years!)

I was no contact with my father for years before he died, and am no contact with one brother. I know how it feels. But he won't take that step. In his words, he 'isn't ready to'

Tell them to fuck off! It's emotional black mail " I can't have party unless you pay for it - practically.

Did they contribute to dh party?
Tell dh to wake up and smell the coffee, they don't want him there it's all about the cash. PIL need to be ashamed of them selfs that they havnt bothered with your kids but want what's inside your husbands wallet . DBIL is a cock too!

Your DH isn't the one cancelling the event, nor forcing the cancellation. He is, however, the one being played like a violin.

It is THEIR CHOICE to refuse to change plans, to make cheaper plans, to refuse to pay more for their own parties. Your DH is not the one holding the gun to their heads saying "CANCEL IT!!"

It is a shame he cannot see that he is being played so badly; and a shame that his family are a bunch of avaricious vultures who care more about the money he can put in than his feelings and the rest of you.

Say no. Tell him to say no. Explain that it is your family money and that it shouldn't be wasted on this bunch of graspers, especially when they show no basic interest in parts of your family!

Just say No. He doesn't have to accept the blame - what he has to do is realise that they are CHOOSING to blame and scapegoat him, when in reality it is ENTIRELY THEIR FAULT.

I'd be declining but I understand how difficult the family dynamic can be.

If he really wants to make some sort of effort, could your DH offer to pay the cost of the caterers for the dinner on the Friday night. All of it, menu and booze to be decided by you and your DH? It's still a generous offer to fund for 20+ people but should be substantially less than £5k and you will still have the cost of travel and hotel, plus childcare.
Hire of marquee, tables etc should be paid for by BIL. He is extracting the michael.

The alternative is a flat no to both, or agreement to do a family weekend somewhere in the UK/dinner in London with an agreed split up front. People who want to do other events over the weekend can a) arrange them and b) pay for them individually.

tbh, the request from PIL was expected. and while it made me eyeroll somewhat, and share an ironic grin with dh, it didn't make me cross.

whereas BIL's recent plans have made me cross. it's just bloody cheeky to dress up his party by tacking on bits for MIL and that we can attend, and then to expect contributions is is just

yet dh is considering it as he doesn't want to piss off his brother too (they are on a reasonably even keel after years of not being close)

I've not spoken to my mother in 6 years, I just can't have her in my life, she is just too toxic. But what really infuriates me is the fact she had never made any attempt to be a part of my dd lives. Nothing.

It's as black and white as that. If your dh family do not enrich your lives they have to go. What's the point in being a cash machine .

Look, if your DH absolutely feels he has to contribute, then I suggest he does it in the following way:
Find a figure that you feel you/he can just about bear to contribute, offer that as your contribution and then see what happens. That way, he hasn't refused a financial input, but he isn't about to be taken to the cleaners either.
Then if they decide to cancel because he hasn't put in enough, again that is their choice.

And they should bloody well learn to only make an event as big as they can actually afford!

Go on why aren't they welcome at your house? They sound like real pieces of work. I'm in the go nc camp.

These lavish plans are totally bonkers in themselves...Who needs that kind of hullaballoo to celebrate a birthday? It is bordering on overly self-involved and tasteless.

My husband treated his whole family (10 people including us) to dinner at an expensive London restaurant for his mother's 60th birthday. The tip alone was more than the average restaurant bill we spend on ourselves! She really enjoyed it and at the time I thought that was pretty generous, but it is nothing compared to these extended days of celebration....

A question to ask your DH might be: is this in proportion to how he feels about the people concerned? Is it in proportion to how he celebrates the special events of those closest to him?

The whole lot of them sound like money-grabbing bullies. When your DH had a party how much did they all contribute?

You're clearly more than capable of saying no to the in-laws. The danger is that your DH will be railroaded into giving them money. I think there are two possibilities- you could do what FrequentFlyer suggested and tell them that you can contribute (say) £150 to the event but that's all, and then not go. (You could send just DH but there is a danger that he would be strongarmed into handing over more money while he was there by the sounds of things).

Alternatively, you sit down with DH and the family finances and ask him to find the 5k that the ILs want you to hand over to them. Which child's therapy sessions does he want to cancel, which child will have to go without their specialist equipment, whose university fees will not get paid, which family holiday gets cancelled to pay for the free holiday that the ILs are getting? Sounds as though he needs to see that his own children would have to go without in order to fund the family relationship that he wants to buy.

It is bordering on overly self-involved and tasteless.

Bordering? It's almost the very definition of "new money".

yet dh is considering it as he doesn't want to piss off his brother too (they are on a reasonably even keel after years of not being close)

His brother's put him on a 'Pay As You Go' tariff. It may sound harsh but if your DH feels, with good reason, that his brother will take a step back from the relationship unless your DH funds his party, then in effect this is what is happening. Easy for me to say I know, but 'closeness' is not worth a jot if it has to be paid for like this.

@ 'new money'

that is possibly the very worst insult you could throw at PIL.

I don't mind them enjoying a party. Or wanting a good party, with decent food (and they enjoy good food and wine), music and dancing etc.

Needing a contribution from dh and his brothers? well, a bit more especially considering they can take a few holidays a year, but again, if relationships were good, then I could let that one go.

It is the combination of expecting it to be paid for, as of right, and dictating exactly what/where/when/how it will be done, to the detriment of a whole section of the family, that I can't stomach (coupled with the fact that we're not really on speaking terms, and they all but blank me and the children).

and now BIL's solution seems a bit of a piss-take, tbh. Almost as though they have been trying to work out a way in which it might seem acceptable to dh, so he pays his share, and the whole thing can go ahead - but then on closer scrutiny we discover that actually, the bit that is suitable for our family is the circus/BBQ (paid extra as we go), as the formal dinner won't be for children, and the Saturday night party won't be particularly child friendly (why shoudl it be? BIL's children are way past the age where their needs have to be considered). So once more we would be paying out for what? Me to have a weekend away with the children, while dh attends the party.

I'd rather stay at home with htem, organise a meet in London at a suitable date if people are interested in seeing us, and dh can go off and enjoy the party, having paid minimal contribution since none of us are ostensibly partaking.

I'd want to know:

• what have they done that's "toxic" leading you to force DH and DCs to cut his family out (you cut parts of your own family off too.....

-What does DH actually want it is his family

• What do they understand about your family?

Thing is original plans clearly bonkers, but do their family just assume everyone chips in to stuff? Has DH ever made it clear he you don't want to live that way?

Sounds like you said you wouldn't do original plans because it wasn't child friendly, NOTHING to do with cash. BIL has thought of new plans that are child friendly. If you weren't clear you didn't buy into the "all family Chipping in" approach then it's your own fault not his.

Eldritch, yes yes.

But dh is not ready to walk away. he just isn't.

he knows he is thinking of taking the path of least resistance. he knows he will inevitably be pissed off when his contribution isn't valued/we (me and the children) don't enjoy the weekend. but it is still easier for him to pay out than walk away.