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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask for your help in writing an objection to Operation Christmas Child?

692 replies

autumnwinds · 02/11/2013 12:57

Our local primary is supporting OCC and has published a piece in the village magazine explaining how wonderful it is and how much the local children enjoy it, what a difference it makes to needy children, and inviting local residents to donate too. The piece omits any reference to the evangelical christian literature that is distributed with the parcels and the way that the gifts are used as a tool to agressively convert recipients to christianity.

I would like to write a reply for publishing in next month's issue trying to give the full picture so that people can make an informed choice about whether to donate to this charity, and to suggest some alternatives that don't come with the religious baggage.

As I don't have a child at the primary yet I'm not sure about tackling the school itself about it (they are not a faith school, so not sure they should be supporting this). DC will be starting next year so I might save that fight for next xmas!

Anyway does anyone have any ideas about a few lines I could write, something succinct and unemotional? I feel quite cross about it but don't want to come across as an equally fundamentalist atheist. I've been looking for some evidence on the web for people who want to know more but most of it is not well referenced...

OP posts:
Suttonmum1 · 03/11/2013 09:01

Cross post in sentiment, Dwellsunderthesink!

lottieandmia · 03/11/2013 09:07

But people do it because they think they're helping, SuttonMum not because they want to buy pointless gifts for people (I certainly didn't). As someone said above, the marketing is certainly very effective. I question most things and did not think to question this.

I am now very glad this thread was started because I had no idea what this charity actually stands for and now that I do I have revised my opinion entirely and will be donating elsewhere.

hermioneweasley · 03/11/2013 09:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Bubbles1066 · 03/11/2013 09:25

It has certainly opened my eyes. I will not do a shoe box this year and will instead maybe donate to the local food bank.

FamiliesShareGerms · 03/11/2013 09:46

A couple of years ago we attended a christening near to Xmas where the parents requested no gifts except a shoe box donation. I was very glad we only took one of DS's old shoe boxes rather than one of DH's extra large shoe boxes after we told - in some detail - during the service that every box we had donated gave a child the opportunity to feel god's love and find the path towards true belief...

Not giving aid because we are fortunate enough to live in the UK and have the ability to do so, but because doing so gives the church an opportunity to convert vulnerable children to a particularly conservative sect of Christianity. Nice Hmm

FamiliesShareGerms · 03/11/2013 09:47

"we were told"

sonlypuppyfat · 03/11/2013 09:52

OCCs agenda of hate!!!! What are you people on

curlew · 03/11/2013 09:55

Our local children's centre has asked for wrapped presents for Father Christmas to distribute. Maybe ex shoe boxers could find something like that locally. And a financial donation to something like Water Aid, or Maternity Worldwide (rather appropriate at Christmas!) as well?

SuburbanRhonda · 03/11/2013 09:55

sonly, read the links upthread to Franklin Graham's anti-gay rhetoric.

That's where the "hate" bit comes from.

HTH.

HettiePetal · 03/11/2013 10:09

A brilliant article here about OCC/Samaritan's Purse HERE

HettiePetal · 03/11/2013 10:10

This is from the article.....

My children think they are sending toys who children who have none; what they’re actually doing is sending faith to children whose own beliefs are deemed not to measure up

Perfectly put.

Pigsmummy · 03/11/2013 10:12

Has anyone looked at their website to confirm if any Christian/religious information goes into the boxes?

It clearly states that they don't do this. I have contacted Operation Christmas Child and made them aware of this thread. I hope that this years campaign isn't slighted by the haters on here.

www.operationchristmaschild.org.uk/occ-faqs

AuntieStella · 03/11/2013 10:14

It's on the front page of their website that they do include Christian literature 'where appropriate'

www.operationchristmaschild.org.uk/landing.asp

BoyMeetsWorld · 03/11/2013 10:15

Have to say...I had no idea at all OCC was strongly tied to a Christian movement (other than obv being about Christmas). If they were doing this at my sons school, I'd be glad of the information OP suggests so long as presented in an impartial, non-aggressive way. Personally I
dont see the issue with a bit of literature going in boxes about the Christmas story etc...it IS a Christian festival after all. But if they're being used to bribe people into converting, that's different :s

HettiePetal · 03/11/2013 10:15

Semantics, Pigsmummy. The leaflet is given with the box in some cases rather than in it. What's the difference.

"Haters"? Seriously? Are you 14?

FamiliesShareGerms · 03/11/2013 10:22

I'm not a "hater", Pigsmummy. We have friends and family who follow a particularly evangelical Christian approach, and I know that, for many people, an obligation to spread the Word is not confined to Christianity. Fine, not what I believe or want to be involved in, but in the vast majority of cases proselytising is a fairly benign activity.

There are plenty of religious charities, or charities with a religious background (Oxfam, Cafod, Red Cross, Red .crescent....) that provide aid without the underlying aim of converting the recipients to what they believe. But OCC isn't like this, is it. Which is my objection.

BlingBang · 03/11/2013 10:25

And if Franklyn Graham has is way, no more abortions, same sex marriage etc. He collects a hefty wage from OCC and is political. But if none of that is important.

RedToothBrush · 03/11/2013 10:25

Reading this thread I find it amazing how many people give to a charity without fully understanding what they are donating to and how that money is spent.

It really is quite something, that people think their social responsibility begins and end with the fact that they put some money in a box and therefore they have done a 'good thing'.

The mentality that 'all charity is good' really is something we should challenge and hats off to the OP for attempting to do so. A lot of people do try and shop ethically - fair trade wouldn't be so successful (and indeed such a selling point now) - if this wasn't the case and this is part of the same thought process and idea of being responsible for the wealth that you have. How you spend every pound has an impact somewhere. We need to do a lot more of it as a nation and as individuals.

There is plenty of destructive charity out there. I think the saying 'The road to hell, is paved with good intentions', is a pretty apt one in the context of this thread. Being critical of charity is the only way to improve it and stop some of these problems.

I personally have a problem with the way a lot of charities operate; some of which are very well known and indeed respected. Its not just about charities that give to less well off nations either.

Charities are by their very nature extremely political animals and its extremely naive to think any differently yet most people do. Would you donate to a political party without being involved and having strong views that are aligned with the parties aim? I suggest you probably wouldn't and yet most people wouldn't give a second thought to what a charities political aims are when they pop their £1 in a bucket. They have just giving to a 'good cause'. But is it really a good cause?

The way charities promote themselves is also something to be mindful of; how much of it is propaganda? Are you being somehow manipulated into giving? Simple things like, using a lone child in a television advert are incredibly loaded and very deliberate... and it affects our general perception of countries and how we view them and their ability to help themselves, if given the means to do so.

Like I say, the word charities are very often political groups to a greater or lesser extent so the word propaganda - which often has negative associations - is the right one to use. Although the word is usually seen in a bad way, it not always bad, but it does make you more weary when you think about charities as using propaganda.

Its no good to just read the stuff the charity gives out. Its always biased and can rarely tell the full story. When was the last time you saw a charity with a section about "criticisms of the charity and our responses"? In an ideal world, every charity should have that and be able to justify what they are doing in order to properly inform people about what they do. The fact they don't, really highlights the point about charities rarely being accountable and transparent about what they do.

I'm not saying that any charity is perfect; I think its actually impossible to be, but I think knowing and understanding weaknesses is crucial to the whole equation. You should properly understand the background and issues that surround the problem that the charity is trying to address and weigh up whether its really going to achieve what it aims - and whether this might have negative side effects. It is not just their problem to understand its also your problem to understand, if you feel strongly enough to put money in a tin or toys in a box.

Therefore its wise to understand the issues and what the charity is aiming to achieve and how they operate before you donate to anything. If you don't know that, don't assume that you have done your bit. Doing your bit includes thinking and finding out about the charity; it evolves effort not just abdicating that responsibility and effectively paying for your warm fuzzy feeling.

Going back to the OP original topic and reading that they donate in Bosnia I'm actually gobsmacked at the logic and insensitivity behind it. Having spent some time there and seen the problems that still exist along religious and political lines, it really does beggar belief. The need for secular actions is paramount to the future of the country and I can see no way at all how this would benefit the kids there tbh. Whilst still very poor, and in need of help from Europe in various ways, I fail to see how this would do anything but cause problems.

I wasn't aware that OCC was an evangelical charity. I did think its ways of operating were, at best dubious, but knowing its real intent is the icing on the cake. If I come across it in the future, I'll be sure to voice concerns if I can.

(And Caitlin, I don't think you are stupid, I just don't think people are taught to question things enough and I don't blame you for it. Criticising charity is actually still pretty taboo and its something that needs to change. There are enough posts on this thread that highlight the point and the OP has been slammed for doing so by some. Learning to question, the things you have been actively taught to trust, is a valuable but hard life experience.

Having the courage to realise, and acknowledge that you have been sucked in, in the past is a good thing to do. Many wouldn't. It can be easier to try and remain ignorant and try and attack people who do raise those uncomfortable questions in order to not take responsibility and feel guilty about it. Hats off to you. Unlike those who didn't RTFT...

I'm sure that you will end up giving in a way thats better, in addition to your good intentions. Don't loose all faith in charity as thats the real danger of charities like these)

notanyanymore · 03/11/2013 10:28

i'm not sure why, just because they're living in poor conditions, they shouldn't be given the same opportunity to enjoy the plastic tat at christmas that more privileged children do. its a few pressies for a child at the end of the day. it doesn't negate charitable work on the more serious issues they face, just gives them a chance to be a child enjoying plastic tat!

BlingBang · 03/11/2013 10:29

If this was an equivalent Muslim charity spreading their more brand of fundamentalist Muslim love, putting in leaflets, sending them to Christian children. Would you still support?

HettiePetal · 03/11/2013 10:32

Brilliant, thoughtful post, Red.

curlew · 03/11/2013 10:34

". I hope that this years campaign isn't slighted by the haters on here."

Have you actually read the thread?

FamiliesShareGerms · 03/11/2013 10:36

Great post, Red

BackOnlyBriefly · 03/11/2013 10:38

hebody

You said "religions are transparent. control and money! most sensible people see this"

Ah, I see the problem. We are in agreement really except that I'm saying most people do not see it. Most people think that religions are basically good. They see the church and remember all those nativity plays and hand over their money or time.

AmberLeaf · 03/11/2013 10:40

YANBU

I hate things like this, totally about the giver.

If you want to teach your child some sort of moral message make them go without and donate the money saved direct to a charity. This kind of thing is in many, but not all cases a salve to those who spend ££££ on their overindulgent christmases, a little bit of 'feel good' to make up for the gluttony.