to ask for your help in writing an objection to Operation Christmas Child?

[autumnwinds]

Our local primary is supporting OCC and has published a piece in the village magazine explaining how wonderful it is and how much the local children enjoy it, what a difference it makes to needy children, and inviting local residents to donate too. The piece omits any reference to the evangelical christian literature that is distributed with the parcels and the way that the gifts are used as a tool to agressively convert recipients to christianity.

I would like to write a reply for publishing in next month's issue trying to give the full picture so that people can make an informed choice about whether to donate to this charity, and to suggest some alternatives that don't come with the religious baggage.

As I don't have a child at the primary yet I'm not sure about tackling the school itself about it (they are not a faith school, so not sure they should be supporting this). DC will be starting next year so I might save that fight for next xmas!

Anyway does anyone have any ideas about a few lines I could write, something succinct and unemotional? I feel quite cross about it but don't want to come across as an equally fundamentalist atheist. I've been looking for some evidence on the web for people who want to know more but most of it is not well referenced...

Hmm, I've just been reading a bit more about it...

I just wanted to send a child in difficult circumstances a present on christmas day FFS why does everything have to be so damn complicated!

Are there other organisations that do the same with no added agenda?

Its not about the tat in order to have the freedom to be a child. Its about the politics and the thought process behind it. Its about the idea that this is the best way for them to 'be children'.

If you want to compare it with another charity which aims to help children 'be children' look at the aims of something like Warchild.

Quick look at their website and their keys points are: Safe spaces, getting them education or skills so they can build a future and advocacy so their rights and needs can be better supported locally. They work on issues such as child soldiers, effects of seeing war, street children, children at risk because they have no one to look after them etc...

Now I'm not actually saying support Warchild here - there are lots of other charities that have aims along the same lines. I picked Warchild simply because they are a charity that came out of the war in Bosnia, and seemed an apt one to compare. I could actually be critical of some things they have done.

But what I am asking you to have a good long hard think about what is actually going to really help a child 'be a child'.

The approach by OCC or Warchild's?

Someone upthread put a wonderful post about "is it that hard?' to understand what the problem really is and to think about and offer a potential solution.

Christmas is about the birth of Christ. Don't like Christmas Christian charities? Don't celebrate Christmas at all problem solved. Somehow I doubt op will do that. People do enjoy Christian festivals who are not religious but please don't then jump on your high horse moaning about the religious aspects its stupid.

Find something better to do with your time.

thebody If you are having your children fill a box to show them about giving then what happens when they find out that you knew it was actually dishonest. That it was to entice children to take advantage of them? Don't you think that will poison the lesson you were trying to give them?

Unless you want them to learn that dishonesty to get what you want is a good thing. Are you trying to bring them up to be bankers or something?

This isn't a personal recommendation, not because I don't know much about them, but Mary's Meals are always recommended on these threads.

Worth a Google?

Christmas is about the birth of Christ. Don't like Christmas Christian charities? Don't celebrate Christmas at all problem solved. Somehow I doubt op will do that. People do enjoy Christian festivals who are not religious but please don't then jump on your high horse moaning about the religious aspects its stupid

Christians jumped onto the Pagan winter festivals in order to pull in the pagans to christianity, so don't try that crap.

'We' were celebrating at that time of year long before jesus was around.

Cupcake, actually I think because Christmas is so much a part of our society and culture in this country, I think you can celebrate the idea of christmas and the moral idea that it is a time for thinking of ours, considering peace and considering how you can help, regardless of your own religion and faith.

Understanding the issues and the politics here is the point. The OP's post has pointed out that the primary objective of this charity does not seem to be able solving the problems these children may face. Its using these problems as a way to spread religion, and actually thats very cynical and is quite fair.

Its not attacking the religion. It is attacking the way they are promoting themselves dishonestly to others in order to gain their support and attacking their priorities and whether their intent really is to help.

Red I absolutely agree with your point, but as I said before I don't think it needs to be one or the other. You can do all those things and still offer a child a present on christmas day, with no agenda other then they might enjoy it, and why shouldn't they.
I understand the aversion to OCC with regards to their political views, I don't understand the aversion to sending a child a gift alongside offering support for the real problems they face.

Celebrating religious aspects of Christian festivals? Fine.

Using the giving of aid as a foot in the door to convert vulnerable children? Not fine.

Cupcake1985 n

Not another ignorant christian who thinks Christians own Christmas. I'm sure this is the result of all those faith schools. Go look it up or read one of the many posts I've made explaining it. Ask the pope or archbishop. There's no real dispute about it except amongst ordinary christians who don't don't read much.

Christmas was a non-christian mid-winter celebration. The Church forced the name change so they could say "See! look how so many people celebrate the birth of baby Jesus".

It is now a secular holiday enjoyed by everyone. Including Christians and Pagans. You continue to celebrate it your own way and so do Pagans and that is fine, but don't ever tell us what we are allowed to do.

I should point out for the sake of your supposedly immortal soul that all the christmas symbols are pagan. You are breaking commandments all over the place having anything to do with trees, logs holly etc.

notanyanymore, I think someone else pointed out that, for many of these children, there is no such thing as a day off - not for weekends or christmas. If they are having to do things to support their family, then having the time to play with a toy is the luxury they don't have. Not the toy itself.

Children have vivid imaginations. They don't need a produced object to fuel that. They will find something in their local environment to channel that though no matter how poor they are. Think about it, how many kids end up playing with the cardboard box their mountain of toys came in on christmas day?

Thats the point.

Christmas is about the birth of Christ. Don't like Christmas Christian charities? Don't celebrate Christmas at all problem solved. Somehow I doubt op will do that. People do enjoy Christian festivals who are not religious but please don't then jump on your high horse moaning about the religious aspects its stupid

This attitude drive me fecking crackers.

There was a Pagan festival celebrating Saturn & Mithras on this date long before anyone called Jesus was supposedly born (which wouldn't have been in December anyway). They decorated their homes with greenery, gave gifts & shared feasts. Sound familiar?

That powerful Christians took over the festival and renamed it does NOT give Christians the right to claim it as their own.

It is a mid-winter festival accessible to everyone. If you personally want to play up the mythical bits, go for it, but don't behave like you're doing the rest of us an almighty favour by sharing it.

Cupcake I have no problem with Christian xmas charities.

What I do have a problem with is people promoting strongly evangelical Christian xmas charities without making it clear to potential donors exactly what the charity does with the donations.

I would have no problem at all if the original article in the village magazine had stated that the boxes are handed out with Christian booklets and presented as a 'gift from Jesus', and the children asked to sign a pledge and sign up to a course to learn about the Christian faith.

It is about being honest and truthful about what your charity does. Surely there's nothing more christian than that?!!!

All sorts of people celebrate mid-winter.

But Christmas is Christian, even though Yule etc aren't.

A Christian organisation being active around a major Christmas festival is totally unsurprising.

The website is very clear. It's not hiding what it does. And people still choose to support it.

cupcake you are failing to grasp that the objection is nothing to do with Christianity - it's to do with homophobia and Islamaphobia - I go to church at Christmas and I give to Christian charities - but I wont give to any charity that promotes intolerance or hate

Christmas is by it's very name Christian - they may have borrowed the date and some of the traditions but you can't really say CHRISTmas is pagan

There's no real dispute about it except amongst ordinary christians who don't don't read much

...and isn't it always those ones who bang on about it?

How embarrassing that they don't even know the facts.

So, is Saturday a day for people who worship Saturn then?

Christmas is Christian for Christians.

For the rest of us it's a traditional mid-winter festival.

Christmas is by it's very name Christian - they may have borrowed the date and some of the traditions but you can't really say CHRISTmas is pagan

Yes, but why do you think they did that?

Makes the whole thing look rather silly if you see that they just made it up and shuffled it about to fit in with something Pagan that already existed.

I have to say that I thought 'true' Christians were against the idea of turning christmas into a festival of commercialism.

Then you have this idea, that in order to be happy and be a child you have to have these objects of commercialism more than anything else. Otherwise they are living it true poverty.

Its a rather bizarre juxtaposition of ideas.

Some might go as far as to say, it was a tad 'hypocritical' don't you think. Some might say there is an irony here, in trying to 'buy' followers with the offerings of commercialism.

Christmas for me is all about celebrating the birth of one of the most important men who ever existed ("existed" being the operative word).

Sir Issac Newton (25th December 1642).

We put up a tree & hang red baubles on it to signify the apocryphal tree/apple incident. And we give presents because it's his birthday, innit?

That's what I say to every Christian who trots out the "Why do you atheists celebrate Christmas, anyway"?

I also ask them if they think Jesus gets pissed off that they get his birthday wrong every single year. Would cheese me off.

I think he's like The Queen - he gets two birthdays

Red is absolutely right - we have bought into the idea of how to have a perfect Christmas is surround your self with stuff we wont even remeber next year, stuff your face with overpriced food and yearn for the good old days of yore that never existed. ANd because we have that idea, we think others' idea of Christmas is the same...that somehow some starving child in a thrid world country really wants some sweets and a toothbrush...

If we want to show Christian kindness to people in extreme poverty - how about buying mosquito nets for babies so they dont get Malaria? Or find a way of getting food into someone other than yourself this Christmas - I have a personal link into a school in South Africa where £50 can feed an entire class for a number of weeks with a high protein porridge every day.

No middle men. No "send us a couple of quid to pay for transport" (ie to print more brochures). I send the money, they buy what they need to feed 40-50 kids every morning. I know the money goes on food because the person who does it is one of my oldest friends, and she does it as part of a university outreach programme.

Or send in some tins of good quality protein to your food bank - you'll be feeding hungry kids in the UK.

I started reading this thread today and asked my DCs, aged 13 and 9, what their schools were doing. Turns out both schools have had speakers in to talk about OCC, and in DD's case (secondary) she thinks (wasn't fully listening she says) that her school may be creating an inter-house competition for the most boxes etc.

I have now used the letter template that came earlier in the thread to register my objections with both schools.

The children also know I won't be supporting the charity. I do teach the children about how it's good to help people less fortunate than yourself, so we will get involved in something that does not have the same vile nature as OCC.

foodbank doesnt ask you to sign up for bible class before t hey will give you a box of food, sunshinemum