To think some people with money

[FutTheShuckUp]

Will never be able to grasp just what it is like to be on the opposite end of the scale? Some conversations recently with people who have always been well off include debating spending thousands of pounds on a holiday just being an inconceivable thought 'oh well it's worth it for the memories' spending silly money on kids prom dresses, limos etc 'well it only happens once' someone not being able to get somewhere because their car needs hundreds of pounds worth of work doing 'just take it to the garage then'
Am I right in thinking there really seems to be a lack of empathy and even trying to understand what a struggle it is financially for some people?

In my defens, I did not mean 'compare' as in 'point and snigger and feel all superior at how clever you are to have more than 'them'' .
As sense of perspective can help though. IMO.

Undoubtedly some people who have a lot of money do become desensitised. Some of the stingiest people I know are quite well off but perceive themselves as poor because they only compare themselves to people richer than them. Human nature I suppose.

The studies are measuring emotional response. It is hardly surprising that people who experience troubles exhibit a greater response to others experiencing trouble.

But it does not extrapolate to some higher morality amongst people on.low incomes.

Empathy is an emotional response, waste.

A poster asked, if poor people are generally more empathetic than the rich. Those studies suggest that they are.

Other studies have measured observable behaviour which demonstrates self-interest, rather than emotional response. For example, the propensity to break rules when there is little risk of being held responsible. The results are similar.

Can't imagine that many people don't realise that some people have next to nothing, can't afford sending the car to the garage etc. Obviously if your are well off or comfortable you should be sensitive and empathise and to constantly flash your cash about. We are probably considered more than comfortable to many. Have "well offish friends" and friends who struggle. The conversations and things we do together are different. I'd never suggest doing something that costs lots of money to a struggling friend etc.

I think this is often seen on Mn, those with money seem to generally keep quiet, scared to mention it unless the topic is something about having money - like the recent holiday thread.

I'm never jealous of someone with super wealth or folk that live in these amazing big houses and estates etc - I just hope that they realise how fortunate they are and that some people lead completely different lives and often it is down to luck.

I get what OP means, and have met a fair number of people like this. My favourite was the colleague who, having just bought an £800k house, which they were then doing a further £150k of work gutting and renovating, told me they were "having to tighten their belts" and forego the Aga they had both dreamt of. Seriously, that was his definition of 'tightening one's belt'. If anyone else ever commented on any form of financial difficulty...a car on its last legs, a broken boiler, not being able to afford to send their child on a school trip....his 'helpful' advice was to borrow it from parents, because that's what he'd always done. He genuinely couldn't comprehend that not everyone has wealthy parents who can bail them out.

I don't for one moment think everyone with money is completely ignorant of poorer lifestyles, but there are certainly some people who are oblivious about others' definition of skint, and experiences of financial hardship. I blame their parents for shielding them from reality.

If people work hard they should be able to spend their cash as they see fit without being made to feel bad for it.

Bling I disagree it is often down to luck. Most of the tme it is due to hard work, career progression, study in order to obtain higher levels of income, this of course is purely in relation to material wealth.

I have experienced being poor as a young adult and probably borderline poverty as a child growing up as measured in UK economic terms. But I have always been rich in terms of my health and opprtunities, and now the health of my DH and DC's.

lisa you make some good points but anyone can 'tighten their belts' it just means cutting back spending relative to their own income.

Feeling good - "Most of the tme it is due to hard work, career progression, study in order to obtain higher levels of income"

But surel even this is often down to lunch that you had the kind of upbringing that helped you achieve all this. There are always those who step outside their background and really achieve (my husband is one). But most people are very much affected by their start in life and the role models and encouragement they had - and that s down to luck often.

Need to proof read my replies. Luck - not lunch and you can probably guess the other bloopers.

well true you cant help what upbringing you are born into whether that is favourable or not. BUT at some point you do get to make choices.

I suppose my view is influenced by my own situation. Both DH and I born into low income but hard working families. We are both qualified professionals. I worked to middle mangement level and my DH has excelled. We have gone from living in houses where were too ashamed to have friends around, no car, no holidays (much) to now living quite a comfortable lifestyle. This has been achieved through educational choices and hard work - never any handouts, paid for own wedding etc.

Assuming that someone is rich because they have been 'lucky' is as stupid as assuming someone is skint because they are lazy and incompetent.

A lot of people being rich does often have some element of luck to it though. People don't all start off with the same opportunities. I'm lucky I married my husband - I would never have achieved this level of living on my own.

Some people are just very blinkered unfortunately, remember talking to someone when DS was due who asked how we were decorating the nursery. We said we had no nursery and DS would be in with us, at which point we had to go through what felt like a comedy routine where they refused to accept that we could possibly live somewhere with no spare room. It was like we'd told them we had no heads. They just couldn't conceive of someone living differently to them. It was very odd.

I think there are a lot of assumptions in the op.

I have chosen to spend a lot on holidays because 'it will be worth it for the memories'. We have a nice lifestyle and no money worries. We go abroad a lot and have two nice cars. In short, we are fairly well off.

I grew up hiding under the stairs from the provy man. Seeing my mum juggle which piece of furniture would need to be returned to the Buy As You View shop this week. Knowing that you never, ever opened the door to a man in a suit because he was probably a bailiff.

I have known poor, with bells on. I've dragged myself up by my bootstraps because I don't want my children to suffer what I did, the constant grind and hopelessness of life at the bottom of the heap.

Being well off now doesn't mean I always have been. Nor does it mean I have no empathy.

Murder - I know that well. Remember moving south to a prosperous town compared to where I grew up. On speaking with new workmates (many old enough to be my parents) they practically told me I was making it up when we were discussing how we grew up. My siblings were born in slums which were later condemned . The posh new housing had two bedrooms. We thought we were posher and lucky to have only 3 of us sharing a small room. The family next door had seven kids from toddler to late teens all crowded in one small room.

The OP did say she was speaking more of those who had always been well off though rather than those of us scum folk who have subsequently done well. On the other side my home town has some sever poverty and lack of aspiration. Those who have always been at the bottom probably have no idea how life can be like for those lucky few.

I agree luck can be a big factor in being wealthy but it's often hard work and sensible decisions AND an avoidance of bad luck IYSWIM

yes entirely keepingup I can realte to the provvy man, coal man and the milk man, I was sent to answer the door to lie! I grew up with unhealthy attitudes towards money and not being shown how to manage it. I didnt know you could 'save' spare money IYKWIM - I have had to learn this.

I worry about my DS being spoilt now and that he doesnt have this perspective of what it is like to have very little.

bling when our council house got modernised with central heating and a porch on the front I though it posh. I used to think I would never live in a privately owned home (lived next to huge private housing estate) - i do now but have a different view of this (re owning own home thing)

"Assuming that someone is rich because they have been 'lucky' is as stupid as assuming someone is skint because they are lazy and incompetent"

I don't know about that, yesterday.

I really admire people who achieve great professional success even though the odds were stacked against them, but do well through dint of hard work and exceptional ability. But people like that are exceptional.

Even so, luck has a lot to do with it. Just having the ability to do well academically, for example, and therefore excel in education, is a matter of luck.

I know that I've done nothing to 'deserve' half of what I've achieved.

bling It does amaze me that people can react like that, I totally get that if you haven't experienced something yourself there'll be an element of surprise that it really exists (though no spare room being shocking?!) but the insistence that someone is lying is just weird!

All I got was "but it's against the law for children of that age of different sexes to all be sharing the same room, the council must give you housing to accommodate your needs, blah, blah!"

And yes the idea of actually having a spare room was unheard of. I have never been ashamed of where I came from though. The people were hard working and honest and had a good community spirit to each other.

My DSis was talking to my DM about the problems with her old car the other day. DM was trying to solve problem, mainly suggesting they buy a new better car, which may be fair enough in a way (there does come a time with cars when it's better, if you can, to start again with a "new" car rather than keep fixing an old wreck). But also it's not always possible.

But I think part of this issue is DSis and others sometimes just need to talk through the problems - some people can be very focused on trying to solve them - which isn't always realistic in the short term, until circumstances change.

Perhaps the better off find that most material problems are fixable, whereas with increasing poverty that becomes increasingly not the case.

Notjustalurker, thank you, I'll look on iplayer.

I think we all have a tendency to think our own situation is the norm which is why some people seem not to understand others' situations.

We have been really skint at times in the past so do have some idea that life can be bloody hard even though we are comfortable now but sometimes people's priorities are so different to our own that it is hard to be understanding.

One set of friends are struggling, have big debts, etc. They have just had a windfall and, rather than pay off some of the debt to make life easier, they have used it to book a very expensive overseas holiday as they say they need the break. Their money, their choice, but they will still expect sympathy from all their friends about how repaying their debts is pushing them to the edge and may well think I just don't understand if I am less than sympathetic.