To think some people with money

[FutTheShuckUp]

Will never be able to grasp just what it is like to be on the opposite end of the scale? Some conversations recently with people who have always been well off include debating spending thousands of pounds on a holiday just being an inconceivable thought 'oh well it's worth it for the memories' spending silly money on kids prom dresses, limos etc 'well it only happens once' someone not being able to get somewhere because their car needs hundreds of pounds worth of work doing 'just take it to the garage then'
Am I right in thinking there really seems to be a lack of empathy and even trying to understand what a struggle it is financially for some people?

re your first comment mrsdevere you are probably right, not many people do. I think most people are sensitive.

I did not say it was on a par with anything. But I agree it is not. Feeling awkard during a conversation is not the same as those gnawing feelings of needing something like money for the meter, or as you say finances related to other highly emotive topics of child health and parenting abilities.

pacificdogwood I agree with the comparing thing it can drive you round the twist. I try to look at what we have in terms of our standard of living and what we had when we first started rather than what others have.

I agree. Rich people (or richer people) cant necessarily grasp a lot of dead and budgets associated with being low income or poor.

That's not bad of them. If they moan about luxuries, then yes it is, we should be grateful for what we have as most of us here have more than 3/4 of the world, even us who can't afford many necessities or heating. It annoys me when people say they are skint after spending money on a mortgage, for example. No, you're not skint. You have a house or a hobby or whatever which you chose to spend money on. It also annoys me when my friend moans she's so skint because she can't afford this expensive type of icecream

By definition, if people who have stuff/money don't talk about it so as not to make others feel bad - then you won't know about it will you! So the rude conspicuous consumers are going to be more noticeable.

Do you want to take their money away and redistribute it?

One man's redistribution is another man's sharing.

I like sharing and it's what I'm teaching my small person. Socialism for pre-schoolers.

Does skint mean then for any given person in any given situation it is being without money to buy something they need or want. As many ave said being 'skint' is a relative concept.

They dont measure 'skintedness', they measure standards of living using multiple criteria which is a arbitary benchmark set my those doing the measuring anyway.

Socialism for pre-schoolers - love it

I get what your saying op

But sometimes when your not poor, it's like some people see you as less worthy

I mean how many times have you heard about so and so who had a massive wedding then went on to split up with almost glee in the persons voice who's gossiping
In a weird well they had a fancy wedding type way

When it must be just as upsetting getting divorcee softer a castle wedding than a more humble reg office wedding

Op, so it seems your empathy is limited to the poor onlythen, not those unwell. Despite me disclosing I am disabled you made no effort to attempt to understand my posts.

God this thread has made my teeth itch.

If you want to open a post about lack of empathy, lack of sensitivity, then I understand that.

But it has nothing to do with material wealth.

It is frustrating when people who have no experience of SEN make massively wrong and hurtful assumptions about children with SEN

It is frustrating when people with no experience of true ill-health make massively wrong and hurtful assumptions about what it means to be truly ill

It is frustrating when wealthy people (by your own yardstick) make massively wrong and hurtful assumptions about what it means to be poor.

Everybody has a level of ignorance because none of us are omnipresent. That's normal. We can't all be at the same point on the bell curve of empathy. We can just try to appreciate how lucky we are relatively, whether that be material wealth, a richness of friends, an absence of death or ill-health shadowing our lives, whatever.

Making this thread all about money is daft. If its a thread about the ignorance of the wealthy then I'd argue that ignorance is probably more evenly distributed than that.

I felt it to be a thread about how the limit of our own experiences can affect what we say/write if we are not careful. And about making assumptions about other people's lives.
I really don't think that there needs to be or should be any kind of unhelpful 'competition' between wealth/health/ability/race.

Gawn, google 'intersectionality' - it's been an education for me .

We could all do with cutting each other a bit of slack and trying to be as kind as our circumstances allow us to be. Or kinder than that.

Why poor people are always perceived as morally superior to rich people? Do poor people really have more empathy than rich?

YABU. Some people lack empathy and it has nothing to do with their income or lack of it. Some of the world's greatest philanthropists have been extremely wealthy and never known poverty. Equally, some poor people resent others' good fortune, believing money has simply landed in their laps. Wrong to generalise.

' spending silly money on kids prom dresses, limos etc 'well it only happens once'

The only lack of empathy seems to be yours towards people who choose to spend their hard-earned money as they please.

Just because Blair chose to spend lots of money on his son's wedding, does that mean that he has no empathy for the poor?

deepfriedsage is right and has made good points.
You are trying to divide people based on what they earn and what they own and are trying to claim moral superiority and more empathy for those who are poor than for those who are better off.

It is you who have lack of empathy for others, not them.

As deepfriedsage suggests, think about real injustices and inequalities rather than boosting your own moral superiority.

People should be able to spend their hard earned money how they wish. It doesn't mean they don't have empathy for someone with less. And people spending silly money on prom dresses etc - you don't know what they have economised on to be able to do that. Very few people can just spend what they like without thinking about if they can afford it.

I like PacificDog's sayings:

Comparing yourself to somebody who has more, leads to misery.
Comparing yourself to somebody with less, leads to happiness and contentment with what you have.

And I agree with Squiffy, it would be good for a lot of people to have empathy for many different things-often empathy comes from knowledge and being in a similar situation but it also comes from sympathy, compassion and imagination too.

It's all very situational I think. A lot of my friends earn a lot more then me, a couple of them find it hard to understand having to save up for holidays or going without but the majority do thankfully. My oldest friend is always skint, i find it very hard to understand her even if I sympathise with her. She earns the largest wage but fritters it away and never budgets. It drives me to distraction, I really don't understand why she is always skint because if I earned her wage-given her low outgoings- I'd be considering retiring early. Yet i do sympathise with her being skint because it's really tight when you know every penny counts.

Why poor people are always perceived as morally superior to rich people? Do poor people really have more empathy than rich?

I think that's a somewhat goady thing to say. But as you've raised the question, there's been quite a lot of research done which suggests that, yes, rich people are generally less empathetic than poor people.

There are loads of long articles about this research online, but here is one quick link

newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/12/19/classandincome/

'Comparing yourself to somebody with less, leads to happiness and contentment with what you have.'

I don't like this. It is too close to schadenfreude for me.

I don't like to "compare" myself with anyone. We are all different and equal and comparisons usually lead to either resentment or smug schadenfreude.

Claig, I think we are on the same wavelength. I don't even compare myself at points in my own life very much either, never mind compare myself to others much, be it parenting, family, friends, home, health, wealth, profession, intelligence, opportunity etc. I just try to improve life for me and others as best I can. Like others I am imperfect and do my best.

Erm, this study hardly proves anything.

I suppose 'compare' is the wrong word Claig, I agree, but i like the quote because it reminds me that in every situation people have it better or worse. I always try to make myself feel more optimist and stop having my own pity parties but telling myself that others have it worse and get on with it or through it.

I have no idea what schadenfreude is though, i'll have to google.

"I just try to improve life for me and others as best I can. Like others I am imperfect and do my best."

Exactly right. Live and let live, and let people buy the prom dresses that they want to. Let's concentrate on improving life and care for all people regardless of how many pounds they have in the bank.

There are lots of studies in this area, Maybe, if you don't like that one.

This article discusses several studies which examine different variables:

nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

What do you think the issues with their methodologies are, if you don't find them convincing?

Mia4, you are right that it is important to see things in perspective and be grateful for what we do have and to remain optimistic.

I get the opposite, 'Well it's alright for you cos you're loaded' etc which is equally irritating. We employ a few people and they have stable incomes. But I do remember having nothing, and always remind them of this.

I've been really, really, teenage lone parent £58 per week poor and now I'm very finically fortunate. I totally get what's it like to be poor. I also hear a lot of people moaning about being skint and poor and I think really they are not. It's all relative. But if someone asks me where i am going on holiday this year I would answer them and not have to justify that I can afford it.