aibu regarding my toddlers behaviour

[mennie1980]

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster.

This afternoon I was upstairs sorting Laundry and my 2.10 year old son starting throwing lots of toys over the stair gate onto the stairs.

I went down stairs and told him off and explained how dangerous is was and how mummy could trip and hurt herself.

He said I want you to fall down the stairs and break your leg. I told him this was a horrible thing to say and asked him to apologise. He refused. So I told him our planned activities this afternoon, making cakes and the park were cancelled and no toys or TV this afternoon just drawing. He screamed the place down and cried himself to sleep.

He is now sleeping peacefully and I am wondering if I have been unreasonable.

He is adopted and our first and only child and not been with us very long so this is all so new and scary and today has been a dreadful day.

Ds has been sent to his room when needed since he was 2. I don't really see it is a punishment more as a calming place for time outs. MN are funny about "punishments". DD is 16 months and quite capable of understanding a time out - certainly threatening her with one often gets her to cease and desist.

Mennie - I am sorry that I did not post yesterday to offer support. You had a really hard time here. AIBU is harsh anyway but non bio parents I do think get judged by a higher standard on MN unless in the relative safety of the adoption/step-parenting boards.

Your son's age is a challenging one and you are dealing with it without the benefits of the bonds forged in babyhood and having built up punishments gradually. Of course finding the right balance will be difficult.

He is scarily articulate though. I think DS's inability to string more than 3 words together until he turned 3 probably saved him a good number of punishments!

It isn't nice for him to say that, but being that he is not even three, I doubt he understands, much less means what he said.

It sounds like he was bored & wanted some attention. Next time, take him up with you to help. It takes ages to sort laundry!

I think you over reacted. You removed 4 things from him, the park, making cakes, TV & toys. It's too much for a 2yr old to understand.

I think you are unreasonable to expect a not even 2yr old to apologise (did you use the word apologise? because of so, I doubt he knows what it means)

I think you overreacted. He has been through a lot and it is quite common to reject his new parents. It will probably happen again I'm afraid so be prepared to toughen up.

My goodness, I wouldn't punish a 2.10 year old at all! I have 3 kids and my youngest is 2.6 At this age they get beyond themselves. If they do something silly/a bit naughty like this, I tell them off firmly (but not shouting or scary) and that's it. Not repercussions like cancelling outings. they're too young for that.

My eldest two, now 6 and 4, are praised everywhere we go for being very well behaved, so being relaxed at this age is not creating problems.

I think since your son is recently adopted he has a special need to feel loved and secure whatever he does, and you need to respond to that, not get overly authoritarian to prove a point.

Oh for goodness sake you have gone too far in my opinion. He's not yet 3 and you have punished him 4 times for something that was rude but not that bad (you wait until they tell you they hate you!)
Personally I would have told him that what he said was rude and had hurt your feelings and for that he can't go to the park this afternoon. There was no need to go over board.

My child isn't 2 yet so i don't claim to have any magic tips for dealing with his age group.

i can however highly recommend the book "what every parent needs to know". It talks about their brain development so you have realistic expectations of them for their age and explains why children sometimes just cant help some of their behaviour especially if very young, they haven't yet got the rational thinking. It has some strategies for enforcing boundaries that are appropriate while making sure your child feels emotionally secure.

i would prioritise forming a close loving bond over establishing rules. There is time enough for that later when he has more understanding. Praise him over and over when he is being good.

wishing you all the best. It must be a huge shock to the system to parent a two year old without having gone through the baby stage and the one year old stage to prepare you.

I will not be dictated to by a two year old so I am enforcing boundaries

In the kindest possible way, op, I am asking you to learn this

1] he is NOT trying to dictate to you
2] he isn't behaving in this (or any other) way merely to piss you off
3] you enforce too much, he will push against it

i have not read all this thread but please go over to the adoption boards. as im sure you know parenting an adopted child is very different.

That is a worrying concept Firefly - parenting is parenting whether the child is adopted or not!

Sending a child to their room as punishment isn't always the best way to deal with things.

1] that is where all their toys are - not a great punishment

2] child will start to associate bedroom with punishment, could affect sleep/create issues at bedtime

I have really vivid memories of an enforced apology. I was quite a bit older around 8 or 9. I had a violin teacher, who came round to our house to teach me. Before the lesson started I had been reading a library book which I enjoyed. During an interval in the lesson, she took some time to mark my music theory homework, at which point I picked up my book to carry on reading. I think she must have said not to read my book during the lesson. I didn't really say why not, but was quite a docile sort of child so put it on one side

Anyway the teacher then told my mother that she had 'had to be cross.' Later on that evening my mother told my father. I got summoned from my room and made to sit at the table until I agreed to copy out a letter which said, 'Dear Mrs X, I am sorry that I was so naughty.'

I sat there for some time, but realised that I wasn't going to be allowed to bed without having copied out and signed this letter that had been written by other people.

The point I am making is that you can sometimes by virtue of your greater power force a child to behave in a particular way. I have no doubt my parents felt very pleased with themselves. What I learned is that I was powerless and also that adults could exert their power over me in matters that were really very trivial.

RedHelenB, sorry but parenting a child who has already, in his tiny life, experienced deeper and more traumatic loss than most adults have had just IS very different from parenting a biological child. Even at birth, being taken away from his birth mother and then later on removed from the foster mother who has replaced her, causes actual neurological changes in a baby's brain. You have to be constantly aware of the potential consequences of this and parent accordingly. Most adoptive parents mess up and fail with this a few times as I did but when you start seeing that parenting in some of the ways biological families do simply doesn't work for an adoptive child and in fact seems to be making things worse, most adoptive parents have a bit of a rethink. Most of us who have been through this are trying to tell Mennie this now to save her heartache later. It is understandable that she is feeling defensive right now but I guess I and others are hoping she comes round for her sons sake.

He is a tiny child who needs to feel loved & wanted just like any other is the point I was making. And adoptive or not, you are still parenting. All children say hurtful things but if you think of yourself as a parent rather than an adopter it must surely help to deal with this?

Absolutely numanoid.

Op children are dictators, ego centric but fragile. Your lo has more reasons than most to be fragile and sensitive to separation and punishment. Mine at that age come and do laundry with me, it doesn't always go well and then sod laundry and go to the park...

I really hope you heed the wise words that some posters have shared. The adoption board and adoption uk would be better places to post.

Did you over react yup but that is ok we all cock up and it's the ability to reflect and change that improves our parenting. Most poor behaviour is caused by lack of sleep, lack of food, emotional challenges, changes, lack of exercise...

It is hard to be in your situation, we all expect more of our first and find it easier to see the inner baby in our later babies. Children's needs do dictate to us, it's not a battle. You can honestly ignore and distract most of the bad stuff, redirect towards good behaviour, celebrate the good stuff and model kindness, cuddles and love.

Keep reflecting, join some adoption boards and don't feel bad. We don't have to get it right all the time ... Earlier today I had a four year old telling me off for shouting and scaring the baby! He was right there was no need... Maybe I will do better tomorrow....

Nancy is 100% right. This child has experienced so much loss and trauma in his young life but he doesn't have the cognitive skills to understand it yet. He must be so confused and angry and hurt. I'm not for a moment suggesting that he won't form a secure attachment to his new family. On the contrary, I'm sure he will. But the life he had before his adoption cannot be erased. And that means his needs may well be very different from those of a 2-year-old raised in the same home since birth.

Many adoptive parents find that "time in" works much better than "time out." Any sort of punishment that involves separation or isolation can really backfire with an adopted child. It can trigger genuine fears of abandonment and rejection. A "time in" keeps the child with you and helps strengthen those bonds of attachment that you are building.

OP, nobody thinks you are a monster at all! And no one on this board is a perfect parent, because that animal doesn't exist. Have you explored the Beyond Consequences, Logic and Control (BCLC) philosophy? It is really amazing for all children, IMO.

You did absolutely nothing wrong. And I wouldn't give dwell too much on fact he wouldn't apologise. For some reason quite a few small children seem to find it difficult to say sorry. There doesn't seem to be any logic to it even ones that are quite reasonably well behaved. Of course he should be encouraged to apologise when he does something wrong but making a huge screaming match deal of it? Not sure if that's productive.

Ok fair enough RedHelenB, I guess I just think it is doubly important to look beyond the actual words used and look at why they have been said if you have an adopted child because there so many extra layers of hurt within in them. I suppose an example would be when they say (and they probably will) 'I hate you, I wish you weren't my mum, I wish I was with BirthMum instead' - in many cases this may be partly true and actually perfectly understandable and allowable even if their birth mother proved to be incapable of loving them or deliberately neglectful and abusive. As their parent you have to be big enough not to take this personally or react in the way you might automatically. You have to be able to hug them and say 'I know its hard, I wish for your sake that things had been different for you too but they aren't and I'm the mum you have instead, I love you whatever you feel' even when you actually want to yell back at them for being so mean etc..

If you can, I'd reread this thread when you're feeling a bit more positive and secure, as there is alot of good ideas and advice on here. If what you actually wanted was no practical discussion at all, then this thread isn't going to help you!

As other people have pointed out AIBU is for straight talking debate, and boards like Adoption, Parenting etc are for a softer more emotional response.

I would probably put him in timeout for 4 mins. Then briefly explain after that it wasn't a very kind thing to say. Move on and not make an issue of it. Tell him briefly he has a choice, he can either be nice and cook/park or be naughty and spend a lots of time on step/in bedroom.

I imagine it must be tricky initially with everyone getting used to each other and working out boundaries.

Mumanoid, what he said in that instance was exactly the same as a non adopted child. My ds asIhave said before aged nearly 7 might come out with it, not really meaning it just as a silly response And i fully expect my teenage children to come out with the whole you don't love me thing - it's what they do, even as biological children!

What worra said, this I'd not the time for punishments and you need to cut him some slack and show him massive amounts of love.

Sigh. Yes RedHelenB, I know. I don't think you are getting it, sorry. It is an entirely different thing for someone who has an absolute unshakeable belief that their mother will always be there for them and has always been, and is basically an unmovable focal point in that child's universe (as in a young birth child) to say 'I wish you weren't my mother' or ' I want to hurt you' than a child who has already lost two mother figures and has the opposite worldview - 'mothers are people that abandon you and never come back for you'. Completely and utterly different sorry.