To think having a baby doesn't have to be expensive

[annabanana84]

I have just had my coil out as I thought dp and I would like to start ttc. As soon as I got home from having it out, dp started saying we should use condoms until this time next year as babies are very expensive and we don't have money for one. We both work and have a nice lifestyle but do have to watch the pennies. I am 30 and really, really x1000000 broody. I am pissed off at dp, because although babies do cost some money, we will have 9 months to buy all the baby things, even longer if we struggle to Conceive straight away. We will be getting most of the baby things second hand or off freecycle anyway to keep it cheap as possible. I hate the way dp let me get excited and now wants wait - a year! I don't want to get old and not have children :o( I think babies need love more than money and material things anyway!

You thought that you'd like to start ttc - did he?
He doesn't feel ready. I expect it's not about the money.
I don't know if you ever 'feel' ready.

Big expense for us btw was keeping the house warm.

olive the maximum maintencance loan for a student living outside London is £5,300.

A quick look at Bristol Univeristy tells me that the cost of a single room in a halls of residence without a basin is £5821.20.

YANBU

Having babies isn't expensive and costs can be huge or minimal when raising them.
They don't have to go to private schools, or private tutors, or uni fees, or driving lessons, car insurance etc.
Many have to get a job and support themselves from age 16 onwards.
Some parents expect their dc to do this irrespective of the household income.

I just can't see how raising a child can involve ' minimal' costs. The basics of Housing and food are expensive.

Well I guess you could offer a child minimal resources, be time, finace or indeed effort.

But I don't know why you'd be happy to do that.

Babies are not expensive but childcare is

It all depends how you do it. Here most people shate at uni in a flat/house so costs are much cheaper. How do you think people whose parents on less than 40/50k still manage to go to uni, learn to drive etc

Just because you personally think only lots of money gives children the best start doesnt mean everyone does. People where I am are in all sorts of teams, dancing, drama etc but it doesnt have to cost an arm and a leg.

Also with uni most people here flat or house share which keeps costs down. How do you think people without rich parents manage to go to uni, learn to drive and get mortgages

sorry x post thought first hadnt posted

My daughter is nearly three. Quality fur-lined winter boots cost as much for her as they do for me. Only difference is, I don't have yet another growth spurt and require a new pair after only six weeks.

Mostly, it's the little things that add up.

For example, the amount of colouring books, crayons and so on the girl gets through simply astounds me. The odd Kinder Egg, stickers, a soft toy from the supermarket just because it's payday. No, none of those things is strictly necessary, but you are going to want them for your child, I promise you.

Food expenses for her are quite high. She will refuse roughly half of whatever is offered to her on a given day and require something else nutritious.

Electricity bills from heating whichever room she deigns to fall asleep in, leaving the hall light on so she doesn't get scared if she wakes up, running a TV or computer constantly, having her electric keyboard plugged in for round-the-clock concert recitals...

Clothing is a huge cost where we live now because we don't have lovely English charity shops all around us.

Replacing the stuff they break is also expensive. For example, when they pour a sugary drink all over your brand new laptop. cries

Everyone has already said. The most expensive bit is childcare and loss of income.

Just to give you some perspective. Nursery fee for DD is just shy of £1000 a month. We also have to both put less into our work so we can drop off after 8 and pick up before 6. I do the drop off, DH does the pick up. We can't commit to a job with long hours and commute. We can't relocate easily for a better job because of the difficulty in arranging childcare. We signed up for DDs current nursery place before she was born and didn't get it till she was 18mo (it is the September after I return to work). It will be the same for school places.

I don't think the problem here is one of finance. I think it's a mismatch of expectations and readiness to have a child.

Children are forced to adapt to the household income they're born into. Some children have a better childhood than others because there is more money. Most children do ok. Some are growing up in poverty. Very few are born into households who can really afford to have children, however; most people just make do.

While I think that far too many people have children without really thinking about whether it's a good idea for them at that particular time in their particular circumstances, I also think that if we all waited until we could really afford it we'd have a massive population crisis.

Your DP doesn't seem ready and his communication sounds like it could do with a little more work before you have a baby. How did you end up in a situation where he said he wasn't ready after you had your coil removed? As you're not married, have you put plans in place to protect yourself against your DP's death/unemployment/illness/ or your relationship breakdown?

I think a few more chats are in order before you ditch those condoms.

I feel that as a parent I am giving more, by giving less. If that makes sense. I am aware that my frugality is of a middle-class kind. We do have a pleasant (rather shabby) houses with a garden. My daughter is state-educated. She's had subsidised music lessons there for a while, and has sometimes gone to classes - pottery, drama etc - for which we've paid. But never more than one a week. She has a basic mobile phone, not a smartphone - and the last one has lasted for 6 years. Toys were from charity shops or handed down from my stepchildren or gifts from relatives. As a baby we bought charity shop clothes and second hand stuff. As a teenager she has an allowance and buys her own clothing from charity shops and sales. She also earns money from babysitting. What we've not stinted on has been love, food, conversation/listening and books. We walk places. She gets the bus. She's a bright kid with friends and seems as happy and well-balanced a teenager as one could reasonably hope for. (Touches wood.)

Given that all the economic predictions are that our children are likely to face a harder economic future than their parents, I hope that we have given her the skills and values that will help her forward.

maltesefalcon - Im sorry but not eating half of food you put out, sleeping wherever she wants to sleep and breaking laptops is acting spoilt even at age 3.

Forgetting about the costs of uni (or just savings for your child's future in general), it's the cost of childcare that is the kicker. My childcare is cheap and it is still only slightly less than my mortgage. Babies don't need lots of stuff, though it's nice to have cute outfits and a beautiful nursery if you want it, but they do need someone to look after them. And that costs ££££ (unless you have family doing it for free, in which case I'm just ). The hard truth is that is also reduces your earning potential - especially as a woman. And the costs of food and school trips and new shoes and winter coats and an extra person on holiday (if you can afford it) etc etc as well as all the bloody never ending washing and drying of fucking clothes and the heating being on more etc etc etc. It adds up. You can probably manage, and no babies don't have to be expensive. But they do cost money and it would be stupid to go into it naively thinking 'well, as long as I buy a second hand pram we'll cope'.

On the childcare issue, I worked out that by the time my two no longer require childcare I will have spent £160,000 on childcare in today's terms.

£160,000 out of taxed income, Dahlen?

olive I don't think it's necessary to be rich to provide a good childhood.

However, I think it's just a convenient platitude to pretend that money doesn't matter. The UK is a crap place to be if you're skint!

HopALongOn, I really liked your post.

If I continue to work part-time and use the same childcare, I will have spent nearly £18,000 on childcare before DS starts school. When someone is looking after your most precious thing, it's not a lot of money. But in terms of my income over those years... it's a lot.

Thanks creamy

If you both work you might want to consider how your income is split.

Household income of £60k where you both earn £30k is a big loss if you decide to be a sahm (or have no choice).

Same household income where one of you earns £15k and the other £45 is still a sizeable loss but probably easier to manage.

If you choose not to work for a time you may have to accept that it's difficult to get back into a position at the same level - so the potential loss of earnings can continue for years.

Childcare costs a lot of money. And don't believe anyone who says it's better when they get to school unless you are lucky enough to have a school hours only contract.

Olive - very few people qualify for free childcare here though ( central London). A 1 bed, possibly 2 bed flat will set you back £20,000 a year in rent. So earning £25k a year only makes it impossible to live.

The government website says it pays up to £175 worth of childcare a week per child if illegible. Nursery down the road costs £86 per day, so that only covers 2 days childcare max

In these circumstances I would consider very carefully how to afford life if say x2 people earnt £25k each and then had to drop one persons entire wage or pay out most of that wage on childcare.

HopALong it would be £955 12 months a year 3.5 years = £40110 for me before DD starts school at 4 1/2. It's a LOT.

The pram is very very cheap. I bought a bugaboo and it's less than a month on childcare. All the initial costs are very cheap. Probably all add up less than 2 months on childcare. I haven't even talk about loss of income/progression.

We're on the same wavelength as FrauMoose.
If you sat down and somehow worked out what money you pay out over the first 18 (21?) years of having a dc, then there'd never be a point when you thought you could afford it. But then, if you really sat and thought about how much you will actually hand over to the Building Society or Bank over 25years, to pay off that mortgage, you'd never buy a house either. The point is, it's about a LOT more than money.