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Original poster

to be shocked that Jack Monroe

359 replies

samandi · 29/10/2013 16:19

was on £27,000 a year just back in 2011?

This is a woman I associate with desperate poverty and yet in the space of one and a half years ? she managed to go from having a prosperous job at a pretty young age to struggling to feed her son?

At the age of 22 she had about a £20,000 net income, which is more than many people can dream about. £27,000 is way more than I've ever earned in my life and I'm over ten years older than her.

Am I being unreasonable to think this detracts a bit from her message? Or am I just living in a different world.

OP posts:
Dahlen · 29/10/2013 19:53

£27000 is slightly higher than the national average (£26,000) and £6000 higher than the typical salary in the UK. It's a bit irrelevant though as JAck Monroe isn't claiming to have been poor at the time she was working, only after having to give up her job.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism · 29/10/2013 19:55

Well this country really has a problem if we think twenty seven thousand is a huge salary- I would say that salary positions you in a really difficult income bracket.

ToTheTeeth · 29/10/2013 20:07

She lives in the south-east. £27K is a pretty low wage. To be honest I'm more shocked that she thought she was in a position to have a child alone.

ToTheTeeth · 29/10/2013 20:11

On the salary I should have added, not full stop.

HopeClearwater · 29/10/2013 20:15

samandi your original post just shows how much people can't bear poverty not to be the poor person's 'fault'. It's easier to blame it on their decisions and choices isn't it - because then you can kid yourself that it will never be you in that position. Look up the 'just world' hypothesis and see if you recognise yourself in there.
Don't you ever think 'there but for the grace of god go I?'

hettienne · 29/10/2013 20:18

What does "she thought she was in a position to have a child alone" mean?

Presumably someone else was involved in bringing a child into the world?

mijas99 · 29/10/2013 20:24

ToTheTeeth. Stuff happens to people, I get that and it means that people get to live a hard way of life for a while or a very long time

JackMonroe earnt an incredible wage for a 22 year old, probably in the top 10% of what 22 year olds earn in the UK

Now she fell on hard times because for some reason, her family didnt support her as a single parent and there were beurocratic glitches that meant her money didnt come through. Fair enough

The point I wanted to make is, this was always a temporary thing for her. Someone who once earnt very well mentally will be pretty confident of doing so again, and in fact she has done just that. So she had a couple of tough years, a little bit like students have when they try and live of very little money each month while the debts pile up. Of course having a baby complicated things.

But JackMonroe is not the face of poverty, she is a middle class person who had a tough year or two. Poverty is soul destroying and involves having no choices, no options, no confidence and no money to influence those options. It goes way beyond being cold or hungry

It is great that JM has got some publicity, although even her meals are very middle class and aspirational and will not solve the problems of the disadvantaged in Britain

Thisisghostly. What the hell are you comparing to? 27k is a huge wage in the UK. People in Spain where I live are lucky if they get 10k per year, and if they are unemployed they get just 5k per year. Yes 5k! Try living on that. Millions do.

ToTheTeeth · 29/10/2013 20:25

We don't know the circumstances hettienne, the father certainly was off the scene before the baby was born. Maybe he talked her into it, refused to use protection, emotionally blackmailed her into not having an abortion and then did a runner despite all earlier promises. The bastard. All we can tell is she decided it was a good idea to have a baby after getting pregnant and personally that is not a choice I could remotely understand if I were a 22 year old on an average wage in an unstable relationship.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 29/10/2013 20:28

4k in childcare? Ha ha, more like 13k...

RagamuffinAndFidget · 29/10/2013 20:32

ToTheTeeth

I don't actually think the circumstances surrounding the conception and birth of her son are anything to do with this thread. We have no idea how her son was conceived or why she chose to keep the baby. Perhaps she didn't know she was pregnant at first, or perhaps she just thought that, given she had a fairly well-paid job and was doing OK for herself that she would be able to cope with a baby.

Perhaps it's not a choice you could understand because you've never been in that situation. Lucky for you. I fell pregnant unexpectedly at 19. DH was, and still is, very much on the scene but we had only been together five months and neither of us had a job (due to various mental health issues - DH did get a job shortly after I fell pregnant, however). It probably wasn't a fab decision at the time to keep the baby, but we did, and luckily for us our fortunes went the opposite way (to a certain extent) to Jack Monroe's.

I don't really like the way this thread is going. It feels a little like gossiping behind someone's back.

ParsingFright · 29/10/2013 20:39

5K a year? My goodness, mija, how rich those Spanish are! That would be a fortune to people in Zimbabwe.

Or is it a bit daft to pretend you can just translate like that?

mijas99 · 29/10/2013 20:41

ParsingFright - I've worked and lived in both countries for many years. The cost of living in most of Spain is roughly equal to the North of England

ToTheTeeth · 29/10/2013 20:45

Actually ragamuffin I was in exactly that situation. I'm not a Daily Mail benefits basher. I'd have given Jack Monroe a lot more benefits and support in her situation and I think it's outrageous that people have to live the way she lived, even if it is for a year or two. I think poverty is a problem that will always be with us, but I think we can and do all make decisions which increase our risk of being the unlucky ones, and I, personally, cannot understand people who blindly walk into risky situations.

murasaki · 29/10/2013 20:47

I thought she was house sharing for a bit?

But I agree, it's the sudden fall through the gap, and the delay in payments, that makes her story valid, it could happen to any of us. In a way, it's easier to identify(for me) with than the story of someone who never had a job, as there but for the grace of god go I, etc....

ParsingFright · 29/10/2013 20:47

So naff all to do with the SE then? Where the cost of accommodation can be easily 10 times that in the north. And I'm not talking luxury mansions.

Given someone said the problem Jack had was that Housing Benefit didn't come through, may I suggest that your concept of how far a 22-year-old's savings were likely to go may be a little out of scale.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 29/10/2013 20:48

£27k is not very much in the SE, it really isn't. It certainly isn't enough to build yourself any kind of financial security if you are a sole earner in the household.

I have no idea who Jack Monroe is, but I just have to challenge this ridiculous assertion that anyone who earns even slightly over the average wage must be rolling in it.

pointyfangs · 29/10/2013 20:54

I think that instead of slating Jack Monroe for not being properly poor, we should be glad that she is one of a very few people speaking out for those who have it toughest under this shit government. It isn't given to everyone to be articulate and have the confidence to stand up for people who are poor, someone has to do it.

Meglet · 29/10/2013 20:55

Yabu. £27k isn't a huge wage. FWIW I earn £9k.

'And perhaps before quitting her job she wasn't aware how difficult it is to find employment, certainly well-paid employment.' I doubt very much she gave up work lightly. I'm a single parent with 2 DC's and work p/t, I am ill, foul tempered and burnt out. I don't blame any single parent who doesn't work TBH, it's miserable trying to hold it all together.

Full time childcare would have cost her somewhere in the region of £13k, although tax credits would have helped.

RagamuffinAndFidget · 29/10/2013 20:58

But she wasn't 'walking blindly' into a situation. She may have thought that, as she was earning a decent wage and had a steady job, that she could raise a child as a single parent and afford to do so comfortably. She couldn't have forseen the circumstances that forced her and her son into poverty.

ToTheTeeth · 29/10/2013 21:11

But my point is she wasn't earning a decent wage. £27K is not enough, by any stretch of the imagination, to comfortably raise a child alone in the south-east. And she knew her steady job involved anti-social shifts. I just don't understand it.

silvermantella · 29/10/2013 21:12

ringaringarosy do you want to perhaps think before referring to what is higher than the average, and significantly higher than the median, wage in this country as 'nothing really.'

It really is offensive to those of us (i.e. the majority) who work hard for far less than that.

RagamuffinAndFidget · 29/10/2013 21:15

So what would you say is an appropriate income and shift pattern for someone to decide to have a child?

noisytoys · 29/10/2013 21:18

Anyone who thinks £27k is a high wage especially where Jack lives is bonkers. My DD goes to the same nursery as Jacks DS. A full time place is £1300/month. It is the only nursery in the area that offer full day places. Every other nursery offer part day sessions. All childminders are fully booked and have huge waiting lists so there is no other childcare options for a full time worker. Suddenly the £27k doesn't go very far. Bear in mind the nursery is open 7am-7pm Monday to Friday, anyone who's shifts fall outside of regular office hours are suddenly screwed! It's not as simple as £27k being a big wage because in the South East it really isn't!

ToTheTeeth · 29/10/2013 21:22

It's not rocket science. Enough, when tax credits are included, to cover rent on an appropriate sized home, childcare, fuel, food, travel other essentials and some discretionary spending, and with a shift pattern that childcare and commuting times can work around...

If you've been married for years and the clock is ticking I can see the arguments for sprogging in less than ideal circumstances, but not when you're single and your life is all ahead of you...

morethanpotatoprints · 29/10/2013 21:25

Its all relative.
I haven't bashed Jack at all, but to me 27k is an enormous wage and no I'm not bonkers thanks.
If you have a high rent, high mortgage, expensive child care etc it won't go far, I grant you.
To me who has none of this, its a huge amount of money and I would struggle to spend it with my lifestyle choices, thank you very much.