to be shocked that Jack Monroe

[samandi]

was on £27,000 a year just back in 2011?

This is a woman I associate with desperate poverty and yet in the space of one and a half years ? she managed to go from having a prosperous job at a pretty young age to struggling to feed her son?

At the age of 22 she had about a £20,000 net income, which is more than many people can dream about. £27,000 is way more than I've ever earned in my life and I'm over ten years older than her.

Am I being unreasonable to think this detracts a bit from her message? Or am I just living in a different world.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Well, when I was budgeting, I totally made this:

agirlcalledjack.com/2013/10/24/making-rose-water/

Um, it says she was given a bunch of flowers and decided to use them up. Is that dishonest? I am also skint and sometimes people give me flowers.

It might be a bit frivilous but there are plenty of recipes involving lentils if people are looking for something more spartan.

LRD, are you going by her guardian recipes or the ones from her blog?

Because one of the strengths of the recipes from her blog is that they are based on the premise that you have no store-cupboard ingredients, no fancy equipment (she'd sold it all to pay the rent) can't afford to buy in bulk as you have to live week-to week, can't buy more than you can carry home on foot in the rain from somewhere not too far away as you don't have cash for bus fare and so on. It's pretty much the practical embodiment of one of the more sensible posters from the living in poverty threads there were a while back.

The example that sticks in my mind is when she points out that when you are in that position it is more affordable to rinse the beans from a cheap tin of baked beans than buy a bag of dried beans.

Oh come on LRD. Someone gave the girl some flowers, she made rosewater with them - so actually it was totally free

stuff like this is really useful I think as many people do believe ready meals are cheaper than home made.

But again, it's just recipes and they're cheaper than Jamie's

She grows the herbs on her window sill. Not difficult -I've done it myself .Yes it does cost a little initially - I got mine from the 99p shop , 3 in 1, so 33p each.
I also shop in Sainsburys and I find her pricing pretty accurate. Most of her recipes are pretty basic vegetarian recipes, so I would expect them to be cheap. I used one of her recipes today (not through neccessity), it worked and tasted nice. I will make them again.

Xpost. What WithConfidence said. Crumbs, that should be something that underlines her message, not detracts from it. When someone gives you a bunch of flowers as a present, is your reaction to stick them in a vase, or to use them to make a cooking ingredient that would otherwise be pretty expensive?

Ah, ok, lisi, I admit I was going by her blog. If her Guardian recipes are more realistic I will have a look.

Obviously, mostly, unless you are a minor celeb, you don't get give roses (and by the way, thats's not a very healthy idea unless you have actually bought unsprayed roses).

But I found her recipes unrealistic. They're not practical. There is little sensible acknowledgement about cooking things together in the oven, really - you need to work out which things cook best together, and it's hard to do that.

I don't have a freezer, and I don't have a store cupboard, and I don't consider myself poor. I would feel very patronizing if I pretended I were. Much of her advice that she presents as suprising advice for poor people is simply extremely obvious. I think that's what it gets my back up.

I feel dead lucky I no longer have to budget a lot. But it never occurred to me to make out I was shockingly poor, and yet I find her meals not so much inspirational, as obvious. Am I missing something?

lisi, cross post. Please don't try to make food out of flowers. They are sprayed with pesticides that are carcinogenic. It is a monumentally stupid idea. You could end up in A&E very quickly. Chrysanthemums are particularly ones to watch out for.

The beans thing stuck in my mind too. And got a slating, if I remember correctly, for wasting the washed off sauce. which is mad.

She's been there, writes well, makes people think who might not have had it itemised, as it were, how much it costs just to exist, not live, and as far as I can see, is trying to make things better by campaigning.

More power to her elbow say I.

fatlazy - I grow my herbs from seed. They cost pennies. I still don't buy her budget.

LDR I understand where you're coming from. It seems that a lot of the positive reaction is from people who have never been poor, assume that no one knows these things and are relieved/inspired there's suddenly a nice, jolly hardworking poor person who can educate the feckless sausage munchers.

Whatever, LRD.

Thanks ALittle. I feel daft because, for goodness' sake, I've never been poor! God knows I've never earned 27k either, but there is a middle ground.

I think her recipes are lovely for people who're shocked by a sudden decrease in income. I do not think they are fair as guilt trips for anyone who's actually poor, and while it's almost certainly not her fault, that's how they're pushed.

Not sure how that deserved a 'whatever'. What would you like me to say?

I think her budget is optimistic, as well, if you don't live near markets/cheap shops/major supermarkets, can you buy an onion not three?

But the aim is good.

And lucky you being able to grow herbs form seed, would love to, but I have no outside space and anything left on a window sill goes awol when the cats are left to their own devices. Ho hum.

I see ALittleStrangers point, but I don't think I at least was taking it that way, and surely the more the flaws in the system are pointed out the better?

LRD I think you are perhaps just a very good cheap cook then. I consider that I can cook and also that I am good at being thrifty but I have learnt a lot from her blog.

I am surprised that she has managed to make ready meals cheaper than the basics ones you can get, for example. Or the way she uses different cheeses in ways I hadn't thought of.

Just the fact that you grow your herbs from seeds for pennies but Jack's 'appear by magic' I guess.

By which I mean ALittleStranger is probably right, but chucking pictures of reality out there is surely a good thing, regardless of who those pictures hit, If it makes people think a bit...

And I hadn't read it as 'you're poor so cook a baked bean burger', but I can see how it might look like that. fair point. it could look a bit didactic.

with, I don't think I am a good cheap cook. In think I am just honest about costs of ingredients. Her stuff is brilliant and inspiring. But it would be more so if she added a preamble explaining the real costs of each dish, so you could jump in.

Ready meals are usually really expensive, and I don't think it is hard to make cheaper versions. But her bean burgers are excellent and unique. What would be nicer would be if she'd cost things more accuretely, becuase honestly, I don't think she does.

fat - erm, seeds don't cost what you cited. Did you think they did? I made the point that jack doesn't really cost herbs. If she is growing from seed, she needs to cost that honestly, and explain it. If she is buying (expensive) packets, she needs to explain that too. If - like you - she chooses the middle option of buying a young plant, she needs to explain that too.

This is not just nit-picking. This is the stuff people need to know. If it's not explained, then it is just so much smuggery to make people feel bad.

She was an emergency operator with the fire service. On returning to work she found that she could not manage the shifts and child care although she tried for a time with the help of her parents. They lived too far away for this to be really feasible. The fire service would not/could not adjust her hours so she had to leave.

OP, most of us are about two pay cheques from destitution. Poverty can happen to anyone. I think the reason why some people are so intent on blaming the poor is that they want to believe that poverty is always due to some deficiency in the person suffering it. That way, because they are a 'good' person, they can convince themselves that it will never happen to them. Nope - illness, accident, job loss, being a victim of fraud could happen to anyone. That's why we should have a social security system (not welfare, please note) that helps people when they need it.

Why should the taxpayer pay? Because most people on benefits have been taxpayers or are taxpayers or will be taxpayers in the future. Stop being conned by the likes of the DM presenting the extreme cases as if they are typical. They are not. They are outliers, annoying yes, but irrelevant to the cost of benefits.

Personally, I'm a lot more offended by the companies and individuals who choose to operate and live in this country but do not pay all their taxes. They are leeches.

That's true. One of my beefs with the recent costings is 'couple of pinches of (spice/herb) of your choice - 3p, without saying that you would need a certain amount up front to a) buy a jar or b) buy seeds, a pot, soil, etc, from which you would then pro rata the serving.

Happens to all of us if we decide to cook with something we don't have. Yes it'll be cheap in the long term, but you have to ahve that money there and then to get it. Simple example, my coffee isn't much a cup. But I had to have £s upfront to buy it.

It is a bit disingenous on that front. But I believe the intention of raising awareness has its heart in the right place

Like button for Northlight's post.

LRD If you truly are interested you should go to her website and read it carefully. She explains about the herbs how to budget for a small number of store cupboard items like spices.

I've read it, north, thank you.

I don't find it very convincing.

Is that ok?

Especially since her published recipes tend to miss this considerations?

LRD is right there. I've read the recipes on her blog, and don't think I could do it for the price.

With stuff pre bought, sure, but really not otherwise.