To think that this is terrible news for my children's education?

[ICameOnTheJitney]

Axeing of Soft GCSEs to hit Drama and PE

Exam board insiders confirmed this weekend that subjects such as law, media studies, drama and PE were at risk of being culled from the list of about 58 GCSEs. One source said that as many as 20 subjects were under scrutiny

Why the arts? And surely PE is a VALID subject...not all children are academic and we NEED PE teachers and drama teachers and actors ffs!

Please tell me why, if this happens it's a good thing?

The problem is that schools might not still offer them.

The new league table measure is average grade in best 8 subjects. If PE and whatnot aren't going to count (and knowing Gove, he will try to edge them out as well as downgrading them), then schools aren't going to risk the kids not doing a full complement of GCSEs.

mrsjay - but as word has said, this does not happen. Schools do not advise students based on the true merit of the subject.

It's relevant in the amount of GCSEs as well; if you're taking fourteen, then of course GCSE PE doesn't matter. If you're taking nine - and out of those nine you have PE, Media, Law - then it does.

It's AS/A2 level where this really becomes a problem in my experience.

But who defines 'academic' ? PE isn't just prancing about on the hockey field. Drama isn't just prancing about on a stage. Who decides Art is 'academic' but Drama isn't? Don't take away choices from our children, especially those of parents who will steer them away from non-GCSEs. They will not flourish in an environment that is so restrictive.

I just looked up this GCSE PE paper. It's not particularly easy.

filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-48903-QP-JUN12.PDF

sniggers at Fartlek

Yeah, I totally wouldn't be able to do GCSE PE. Apart from failing the practical (because I have no hand eye coordination) I would get disqualified from the exam for laughing!

Loughborough is the outstanding example of having double standards
for entry to Sports Science.
If you are outstanding in sports - i.e. already a GB International and can tell your arse from your elbow, then they will some how get you onto a course.
The AAA of academic subjects , without Physical Education at A level is to ensure that they do get some people on the course who will actually be capable of doing it, but they will not want to take up the time of the coaching staff

NomDeOrdinateur, can people be taught to think critically? Surely this is anathema to the true purpose of education, which is to reproduce labour power. Two ways of looking at it, one is to say education is about training minds to think, the second, about filling minds with state sanctioned dogma thus preventing thinking.

I do agree with Gove that we need a return to academic subjects because most often it is pupils from poorer backgrounds, who unable to make the progress are shovelled off into soft subjects, thus denying them the ability to develop higher level thinking skills.

My school gives excellent career advice.

It would likely stop offering Drama if it ceased to be a GCSE.

That would be the end of my job.

Last year I had 15 pupils in the u6 they all went on to either RG universities or drama school.

One to med school, several to do English and/ or history, one or two to do a science subject.

It is absolutely not true that they cannot access RG academic courses, or that A Level drama and GCSE is not rigorous enough or limiting for a potential medical student.

It's academic snobbery and it stinks.

weneed, its also about how many vocational options they take.

e.g. if a student taking 9 subjects decides to take GCSE PE alongside English Language, English Lit, Maths, Double Science, a language, and a couple of humanities, that's probably fine.

But if a student chose to take PE, Media, Drama and Law as their four options, they would probably be limiting their choices at A level and degree. If they then decide they enjoyed the Law, and want to become a Lawyer, they would not have enough choice at GCSE to choose suitable A levels that would get them a place to study Law at a good university.

Why not? They can take any of the core subjects at A level plus a raft of subjects that don't need to have been studied at GSCE. And it's unlikely at most schools that still use the column system for time tabling that all those choices would be allowable.

Lottie, but I expect most of those students only took drama as a vocational subject, along with a clutch of other academic subjects

I expect they took e.g. English, Drama and History A levels
and not e.g. PE, Drama and Law

It's not the course itself, its about the combination. One vocational subject on its own is fine, but taking all three with no academic option would limit their university choices.

I like them to stay but better advice needs be given on if looking at uni they need to look long term at at what they have chosen as becomes critical when picking A levels

Ds2 was offered no guidance at all took me and him looking online online year 8 to pick carefully (fortunate as he knew what wanted ) and we had to do ssne year 11 11 looking at uni courses

I'm not saying a GCSE in PE would allow a child to become a pro athlete ffs. I am saying that a child who excels in PE should be given the chance to gain an A* in it....and then continue their training and study in it. And with obesity at epidemic levels, it's time to take sports more seriously.

Some of the subjects are a bit cuckoo...but the arts and PE...leave them alone.

No help at all from teachers and if had picked lot vocational year 8 then he been limited at later date ( ds2 is not drama/art orientated so easier)

But they do need to stay ds1 not academic did vocational and is now working and and learning on job which without doing at school would not had leg up

Human really? Mine are not in secondary yet....it sounds bad that DS wasn't guided! It was the same for me....but that was in the 80s at a shit comp.

To be honest, things like this worry me massively. They're always fucking around with education and it's not helping is it? The trouble is also that kids who aren't academic have little choice in terms of job prospects...where once they might have gone straight into apprenticeships there are none available!

What they need is training in online marketing and ecommerce if they want to replace "retail studies".

Ds2 hated PE and annoyed that 6th formers are are expected do as enrichment .

And no not obese but sports offered not his thing lot of of football/cricket which put him in the C set limiting sport choice more ( yet he he pretty good sprint runner

I do think that by 6th form they should be given a choice of PE or no PE....or more choice.

Selective schools don't consider them equivalent.

My eldest's very academic selective school has lots of girls doing PE and Drama GCSEs. They don't do Law or Media Studies, but they do do Business Studies. They also insist on all girls doing a "technology" - ICT/Food/PD/Textiles - which would seem to fall on the practical side of the dividing line.

All of which indicates to me that they do consider them equivalent!

The ones that it's being suggested will be dropped, or considered differently, will be the ones that need to retain a large practical element through the course, and Gove's new qualifications are going to have no coursework (apart from a practical science exam). So there will be some qualifications that are all (or 90%) theory, and some that won't be examinable purely by an exam at the end of 2 years.

If the more practical ones are seen as lesser, then yes, I think that will be very sad. There are plenty of children who won't thrive on linear, all exam, courses and should be given some chance to show what they ARE good at. There are also plenty of very academic children for whom the very different discipline of some of these subjects is really useful - e.g. producing projects over several weeks or months, rather than just remembering and regurgitating.

Yup I came here they picked y8 (now now year 9) but no asking any idea what want in future .same in year 11 even when obvious choices affect uni(thsnk feck for for Internet so we could look up

Human, I hated PE too but it's a legal requirement and its important for health. I do no sport now and I am ridiculously unfit (still slim, but can't run for a bus)

It's a shame they didn't offer more choice though.

I particularly dislike outdoor sport, as I have bad circulation. So I managed to organise it so I took basketball, gym and yoga. None of which I was especially keen on but at least they were indoors!

Yup jimmy they already carrying lot of of coursework 6th gorm .PE hardly matter (choice Football or badminton)

Lottie, but I expect most of those students only took drama as a vocational subject, along with a clutch of other academic subjects
I expect they took e.g. English, Drama and History A levels
and not e.g. PE, Drama and Law
It's not the course itself, its about the combination. One vocational subject on its own is fine, but taking all three with no academic option would limit their university choices.

You are correct of course it's the combination that counts, but the govt is not advocating limiting combinations but banning the subject outright- baby, bath water...

And FWIW those pupils took drama because they love drama and theatre, not because they fancied doing a 'vocational'.

Five of this years L6 are doing drama and maths- I'll admit it seems an odd combo to me (I was a Drama, History, Englisher), but it seems to be working for them, which is what matters.

The fact that you now have to choose subjects so early is frightening! Not just 2 years on a restricted curriculum but 3 or 4
Our poor children.

Frogspawn laugh on them when ds2 name pulled out hat to groans to run 100 m for houser on sport day ( nickname is sloth )and he won the race easily smashing school record and was asked why why never took Athletics club up .ssid well sir I was never never invited or asked if can run

Nah he still sporty likes to climb/ walk / caving

noble I think they schools will still offer these subjects, just as many of them offer BTECS.

Since in many comps a large swathe of pupils will not be able to undertake 9 academic GCSEs, they will have to offer them somehting.

No school will insist a less able pupil take 9 GCSEs and risk them failing the core exams that go towards their league tabel status.
And no school will offer them only five and let them sit in empty classrooms for half the day.

Yep lottie

Ds2 has taken RS as his funsubject he really enjoys as its philosophy snd ethics snd loves a good debate

but was careful that others are seen more tradtional