To think that this is terrible news for my children's education?

[ICameOnTheJitney]

Axeing of Soft GCSEs to hit Drama and PE

Exam board insiders confirmed this weekend that subjects such as law, media studies, drama and PE were at risk of being culled from the list of about 58 GCSEs. One source said that as many as 20 subjects were under scrutiny

Why the arts? And surely PE is a VALID subject...not all children are academic and we NEED PE teachers and drama teachers and actors ffs!

Please tell me why, if this happens it's a good thing?

Stillenacht Don't get me wrong, I agree that the study of music can be highly academic. DC1's wrestling with Bach chorales at A2 convinced me of that! But there were highly gifted musicians in that A2 class who were off to conservatoires and who were not interested in the academic side.
DC2 is doing Edexcel GCSE music which seems pretty stretching, especially for those pupils who haven't done Grade V theory.

My broader point is that if music/art/drama have a performance/creative element, then that should not invalidate their worth as subjects to be studied and examined in school. Gove appears to be very suspicious of anything that has this creative element - I think he believes it's just mucking around in school time. But the discipline involved in putting together a composition or portfolio is exactly what the education system should be fostering.

"One question was what is anxiety? Surely every 16 year old knows this and it's not specialist knowledge?"

Wow, so that kid gets one mark. The exam has to cover all grades from G to A* so of course there are going to be some easier questions on there.

Incidentally, not all 16 year olds would be able to read the word anxiety so would be stuffed.

noble have you looked at the paper? The link is on page 3 I think. That is certainly not the only question of its kind. I'm certainly not an expert on sport at all but I could pass that paper. If a 16 year old can't read anxiety they will certainly be in the minority. DB is dyslexic and 15 but can still read it.

Both my ds did GCSE PE and there was quite a lot of written work and essays considering it isn't considered as academic by most. In fact several students who chose it as a soft option didn't complete.

NB
Children cannot "leave school at 16"
they have to be in education or training until 17 from next year and 18 the year after that.

NB
PE lessons will still be compulsory, just not leading to an exam

NB
Fee paying schools, free schools and academies - which between them account for around 2/3 of secondary schools are not bound by the National Curriculum

As I was a Drama teacher for ten years I can honestly tell you it's not a soft subject - it's hard to do well in. Not everyone can act, direct, create or think symbolically.
Sheesh - it drives me crazy!

But, as an adult, you are drawin upon all sorts of experience of the world to help you to answer questions that you haven't actually been taught about. As an adult, you have a lot more experience and background to draw upon than a 16 year old does. I don't know what the Fartlek training method is (but I could google it). People won't necessarily know what an ectomorph is. And plenty of people (of all ages) won't be able to write a clear, succinct and accurate definition of a term like 'anxiety'. Just because you implicitly know what something means, doesn't mean you can explain it or write a definition of it.

The paper seems perfectly rigorous at GCSE level to me. It involves knowledge and skills in applying that knowledge to particular situations. It is only GCSE level; they're not going for a PhD in PE here.

Ah yes Clayhanger but by its very nature it's academic. To get into the conservatoires 99.9% of students will have done grade 5 theory (so they could access the higher practical grades) and a large majority will have done A2 and hence Bach chorales.. It's just that they have chosen to then go on to do performance.

I agree with your second paragraph though

Fifi, it was me that posted the link to them.

I'm not sure why you think you ought to be an expert in sport to answer every single question, it's GCSE not a degree. I expect you could answer a few questions on most GCSE papers despite not being an expert.

But q1, what's an ectomorph? I haven't a clue. There's loads on there I don't know.

Can anybody provide a link to the 58 GCSE's please.
I have tried in the past and not found a comprehensive list.
I would imagine that Leisure, Travel and Tourism will be scrutinised as well.
Maybe young people will be expected to get fewer if the choice decreases, which has to be better than 11 or 13 when Uni only ask for 5 including Maths/English.

Talkin

Surely post 16 education will still be F.E so for those continuing their education at a 6th form college, or college of FE will have left school.
Or am I wrong and they actually have to be attending a school?

I did GCSE PE back in 2000. As well as the practical side there was a fair bit of physiology and anatomy- the material covered in GCSE PE was more useful during my medical degree than GCSE biology. Mistake to axe it if you ask me.

The official school leaving age is 17, rising to 18
so yes, colleges and the like will count
but they will NOT be able to go and get a full time job or relevant benefits at 16
the ' vocational' colleges round here are already expanding to handle the influx
the academic ones are barely affected

Talkin

They are here too. Not just F.E colleges but we have a new academy near us that offers GCSE and lots of level 2 and 3 vocational courses. Its the same street as the local FE college too.
Did you know that many are to include dc who have been H.ed up until then as well. Which is great news for us, although not sure if it won't have all changed in the 6 years before my dd is ready

With the anxiety question, what with it being PE, I would imagine they're looking for a physiological description - eg increased heart rate, higher levels of cortisol and so on.

Which seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable GCSE question.

For some students, studying subjects like drama, music or art is what keeps them engaged at school, broadens their horizons and enables them to do better at more traditionally academic subjects. For example, a student who isn't a natural scientist will understand how their body works better because they have learnt it in practice in P.E. A properly taught drama GCSE will give students the tools to improve their English Lit and Lang skills.

And more than this, students - of all backgrounds and abilities - need a balanced education which - at its best - teaches them to love learning for learning's sake.

If subjects are down graded I think actually it will be bright middle class kids who miss out as much as less able students - reading threads like these it strikes me that parents and schools - with a narrow focus on grades - will deter students from taking less academic subjects. If that happens, those students will loose out on having a broad, balanced education. RG universities are looking for a love of learning, an interest in the world and young people who are self motivated and engaged as much as they are looking for grades. However academically able you are, you will struggle at an RG university without those 'soft' skills.

Sorry, word, that came out a bit confrontational.

if leavnig age is 18 then they need vocational stuff for less acadedmics to do.

I did gcses late 90s and crap and only comp small town.

I made poor choices and did badly/

hated gcse geography.

They dident offer gcse pe or drama.
or triiple award science.

we did

maths english language.english lit only if in top english sets, double award science.

We had 4options 1 had to be mfl chose french only those in top sets 8 and 9 got to try dfferent language ie spanish or german which made no sense as someone crap at french may get on better with spanish, year below us had to do gcses welsh.

I did gnvq advanced business studies suppost to be equivilant to 2 alevels it wasent and when aplying for uni i would have been better off getting crap alevels. The coursework was excessive at btec level ended up dong a levels in a year.

maybe they better off scrapping gcses and having exam at 18 like lots other countries do
Surly we need less exam boards if ones vastly different or easier curriculum than another one?

My stepsons struggled and dong gcse art,pe and btec level 1 in hosptaity and catering, single award scince, foundation maths , englsh god knows what hes going to do.

My mum nd remember some kids in school instead of gcse did coe certificate of education does this not exist aymore as mam sad at secondry modern they did coe and o levels.

I dont think any o levels were modular back then.

I wang my DS to do gcse drama, as it is the only think he is "gifted" in. It would make him able to bear all the serious stuff. And D&T.

It would be something to look forward to during the week.

I was not allowed to do art or history of art, those were the only subjects I ever used to get A's for.

If you have a talent, but it is not "academic", it is not worth persuing? Sad

( as you see, am not great at English!)

HOW is drama not an academic subject?

Sophocles, Shakespeare, Marlowe, Chekov, Ibsen, Beckett?

Drama has a far older and more illustrious history than the study of novels.

Because it involves an element of performance? Well guess what- so does poetry, music, and visual art.

Really annoyed by some of the attitudes on this thread.

Sophocles, Shakespeare, Marlowe, Chekov, Ibsen, Beckett?

Indeed. Now find the GCSE syllabus in which any of those are studied.