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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that this is terrible news for my children's education?

484 replies

ICameOnTheJitney · 28/10/2013 09:12

Axeing of Soft GCSEs to hit Drama and PE

Exam board insiders confirmed this weekend that subjects such as law, media studies, drama and PE were at risk of being culled from the list of about 58 GCSEs. One source said that as many as 20 subjects were under scrutiny

Why the arts? And surely PE is a VALID subject...not all children are academic and we NEED PE teachers and drama teachers and actors ffs!

Please tell me why, if this happens it's a good thing?

OP posts:
mrsjay · 28/10/2013 09:55

but kids can leave school at 16 if they want and tbh core subjects to outweigh the non

Bonsoir · 28/10/2013 09:56

I'm not sure that pupils are being done any favours by taking exams that have little or no market value.

weneedtotalkaboutkettles · 28/10/2013 09:58

vj - it isn't so much that they are giving career advice that is incorrect, but more that a school will not put themselves or a member of staff at risk, either from falling roles and then redundancies, or lack of uptake to a subject which would then result in redundancies.

In other words, if school A offers a traditional curriculum but over time is losing students to school B which offers traditional subjects plus Film Studies, Law, and others listed here, the response of school A will not be to explain to their students that they are better sticking with traditional subjects - they have too much at stake for that.

That situation is further complicated by the fact that put simply, the better the results, the better the school looks. It's not a level playing field - and ultimately students DO miss out because of this.

I have no objection to a broad curriculum but my main drawbacks to the softer subjects is there is an Emperor's New Clothes element to them with everyone knowing that they are 'soft' subjects - everyone except the children taking them.

frogspoon · 28/10/2013 09:59

mrsjay

To study Sport and Exercise Science at Loughborough (notably one of the best places in the uk to study Sport Science) has the following entry requirements

AAA including at least one of the following preferred subjects: Biology, Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Psychology, Sociology, History and English literature or English language.

General Studies is excluded.

Interesting how PE/ Sport is not considered a preferred qualification at top top place to study Sport Science.

wordfactory · 28/10/2013 10:00

vj the difficulty is that the schools who advise on equivalence are in some ways correct.

These GCSEs were brought in as equivalent.

And schools invested heavily in bringing in appropriately qualifed teachers and making space in the timetable and logistically.

An orthodoxy has sprung up. And many teachers/schools/parents will fight tooht and nail to preserve it!

RedHelenB · 28/10/2013 10:00

Drama always used to be an o'level. DD2 will be gutted if isn't a gcse option. And since when is 8 indicative of high performance!!

mrsjay · 28/10/2013 10:01

well now I know frogspoon

weneedtotalkaboutkettles · 28/10/2013 10:01

Fanny - all the subjects have some written element to them. Someone with learning difficulties or even someone not academically able would still struggle to access them.

We're not doing students any favours by pretending the boy who wants to be the next Ryan Giggs but actually is just a bit better at football than his peers will be able to do so on the merit of a BTEC in PE.

I believe that the GCSE course should be one that is broad, offering both academic and vocational subjects - but that each should be identified as such. Students from professional backgrounds have parents who will be brutally honest with them; students who are not, don't, and thus don't get the university places they perhaps were worthy of and thus the cycle perpetuates.

mrsjay · 28/10/2013 10:02

I still think removing soft subjects is a terrible idea

NomDeOrdinateur · 28/10/2013 10:02

I don't understand why Drama or Law (or Fine Art, for that matter) should be considered "non-academic" subjects at GCSE - when I was at that stage (in the mid 2000s), both of them required lots of engagement with intellectually demanding material and the use of theory, abstract thought, critical thinking, and essay writing skills. If that's lacking now then surely the solution is to put it back, rather than watering down the qualifications to a purely "vocational" level.

(FWIW, I didn't take Drama or Law although I knew lots of very hardworking and intelligent students who did. I did take Fine Art, which was very heavy on methodical research, essay writing, and working in lots of different styles and media, and has helped me a lot with approaching unfamiliar tasks in adult life.)

I'd also love to know why so many people perceive Critical Thinking as a "soft subject"... I did it as a "bonus" 5th A-level just out of interest (as I knew that Oxford etc didn't respect it at the time), and found it very stimulating and challenging, and have used it every day since. IMO some version of the course should be compulsory in secondary or college because critical thinking is an essential life skill, especially now that the internet immerses us in so much unreliable information and young people have the disposable income to sign up to so many rip-off contracts and exploitative gap year schemes.

GoshAnneGorilla · 28/10/2013 10:02

It's just more pointless tinkering for the same of it.

chosenone · 28/10/2013 10:03

But the GCSE is the more academic route? GCSE are the more rigorous option than the more vocational Btecs. They could be made more academic e.g. GCSE Drama could be more like A Level Theatre Studies and include more theories of practioners and study of the History of Theatre. Gcse Art and Btec compare in this way and probably Gcse P.E and Btec P.E. I also think literacy across the curriculum is vital so that it is not just up to the English staff/Literacy Coordinators. But we do need to strike a balance between rigour for the top end and relevance for the non academic, without creating 2 tier systems we have seen before.

eggyweggies · 28/10/2013 10:03

Drama is a great GCSE. You write essays on lots of plays, go see high-quality productions and write essays about them, and write/devise your own piece, as well as performing it. How on earth is that not academic? And it compliments English beautifully. It would be a travesty to get rid of it.

frogspoon · 28/10/2013 10:04

RedHelen, to my knowledge there used to be two options for Drama (not sure if GCSE or A level)

Drama was considered an academic option, where students analysed play scripts, wrote essays etc (similar to English Lit)

Performing Arts on the other hand was considered a more vocational option where students focussed mainly on their own performance.

Perhaps Drama could be an academic GCSE, and PA a vocational qualification e.g. BTEC

FannyMcNally · 28/10/2013 10:04

Loughborough comes across as so up itself! No other SS courses want AAA and not necessary! Birmingham was ABB with PE as a preferred and others were as well that I can't remember.

mrsjay · 28/10/2013 10:05

and not all children will go onto university and by removing these subjects in my opinion will put children off school and they could disengage if they are forced to chose all academic subjects there is nothing wrong with doing 2 periods of drama a week or P E ,

FannyMcNally · 28/10/2013 10:06

Up until year 10 the curriculum is broad. DT, including design, cookery

weneedtotalkaboutkettles · 28/10/2013 10:06

I agree mrsjay - there isn't, but there is something wrong with pretending to the children who DO want to go to university that BTEC PE will grant them the same status as A level History. It won't.

noblegiraffe · 28/10/2013 10:07

'Soft' shouldn't be confused with 'easy'

I just looked up this GCSE PE paper. It's not particularly easy.

filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-48903-QP-JUN12.PDF

And I know I'd flunk the practical!

noblegiraffe · 28/10/2013 10:09

Here's the second GCSE paper. Again, not easy.

filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-48905-QP-JUN12.PDF

FannyMcNally · 28/10/2013 10:09

...... they do Art, Music, PE as well as languages and the humanities. From y10 you can't just expect students to do two years of core or 'academic' subjects. They would die of boredom.

mrsjay · 28/10/2013 10:09

but a child who is going to go to university will be advised on which options to take surely so they will take history and not P E

mrsjay · 28/10/2013 10:10

they do Art, Music, PE as well as languages and the humanities. From y10 you can't just expect students to do two years of core or 'academic' subjects. They would die of boredom.

they would be banging heads of the wall can you imagine maths and English day in day out

FannyMcNally · 28/10/2013 10:12

Two of my dds took PE A level prior to university and one just got a first from Exeter in a non sport subject! It's not instant death to take PE GCSE...

wordfactory · 28/10/2013 10:13

mrsjay no one is suggesting their removal. Schools will still offer them.

However, they won't be offered as equivalent to a more academic GCSE.

The reality is that this is already happening unofficially.

Selective schools don't consider them equivalent. Independent schools (generally) don't consider them equivalent. The most selective univeristies don't consider them equivalent. Employers don't consider them equivalent.

Even the kids know which are easy and which are harder.

All this will do, is offically recognise what is already the case.